Hiya, guys! Feels nice having moved to the new “house”. Looks pretty neat.
Anyways, I’m joining a new campaign and I want to play a Goliath Cleric. The DM isn’t set yet if it’ll be a normal game or a gestalt one, but nevertheless I wanna play it Cleric. I already have some build ideas in mind, but I could use the help with the feat selections or even PrC’s, especially if I’ve missed some new developments.
THE CAMPAIGN Ability Scores: 32 Points Action Points: On Sourcebooks Allowed: Any that can be shown when demanded Potential Partymates: **Dwarf Barbarian, going Frenzied Berserker (CWar) **Elan Shaper (EPH), going Constructor/Ectopic Adept (CPsi) **Elf Druid, going Arcane Hierophant (RotW)
I’m kinda unsure if my gestalt build is legal. Can I qualify the Hierophant to add to my Ranger even if it is my Cleric levels that give me 7th-lvl divine spells? Can I use the Hierophant abilities with my Cleric spells if the PrC is building upon my Ranger levels?
In gestalt you can only take one prestiege class at a time, so I can’t see any way for your gestalt build to be legal as is, unless you somehow… did something wonky with what side your ranger levels are on?
I can’t be sure if I can go Church Inquisitor (CDiv) since it will have to rely solely on how the story progresses. I’m now considering Thaumaturgist (DMG) and Divine Oracle (CDiv).
As for RP, he’s the sole survivor of a Giant raid on his mountain home. If not for the arrival of his colony’s Dwarven friends, he would have been slain as well. Ever since, he’s been living on the Dwarves’ aboveground settlement (which also serves as their shop for their crafts) and has been a devout follower of Moradin (or one of the other Dwarven gods, such as Dumathoin). It’s not that flashy yet, I know. I’m still working on it. Some help would also be appreciated here. I’m supposed to start out as friends with the Dwarf Barbarian in the party.
I’m fairly certain you have to apply a prestige classes progression to a class that meets that PrC’s requirements…
That’s not the case, otherwise a build like Rogue 4/ Wizard 1/ Assassin 5/ Arcane Trickster 10 with 11th level Wizard spellcasting wouldn’t be possible, which it is.
I wouldn’t recommend using a level-adjusted race for a primary spellcasting build. From the looks of it you’ll be the only character capable of a decent amount of healing, so I’d recommend a build which is good at both that and a variety of other things. Something like a Cleric 6/ Radiant Servant of Pelor 10/ Sacred Exorcist 4 is a superb build, especially with a few choice feats and items plus the spontaneous domain casting variant from PHB2 for the Healing domain. Radiant Servant grants proficiency in all martial weapons, and with some decent buffs you’ll have the best AC in the party all day. With a Phylactery of Undead Turning and a Scepter of the Netherworld (LM) you’ll be turning undead as though you were nine levels higher, and with Extra Greater Turning you’ll destroy any undead encounter you find. Augment Healing is another good feat to have just to get more out of each healing spell. The feat Divine Spell Power (CD) is great for casting buffs like Magic Vestment, especially with a Lesser Rod of Extend and a standard Strand of Prayer Beads which has had the Bead of Smiting removed/lost for a lower price, and it can be cast on both armor and a shield.
For a gestalt build, there are quite a few directions you could go with a Cleric. It really just depends on what you want the character to do. I can think of a few ideas off the top of my head, but it would take too long to detail them.
Good point. Maybe I’ll just stick with Human or Illumian if it’s a normal game.
But if it does become gestalt, I’d like to go Goliath still. Now that I’ve seen Biff around, I’m reminded of one build he suggested eons ago: Cleric/Contemplative // Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade. It’d be nice with a Dwarf, but I just like being beefy.
For a gestalt build, there are quite a few directions you could go with a Cleric. It really just depends on what you want the character to do. I can think of a few ideas off the top of my head, but it would take too long to detail them.
Oh boy, do I agree! If I know Biff, you’d have to be specific in what you want your character to do - unless you want to read something like a doctoral dissertation on building game-breaking characters. :D
Well, it turned out to be a gestalt game after all, and we kick off at 3rd level already! Seemed that the other folks had other ideas about gestalt so the party composition was somewhat changed. I am still a Goliath, though…
THE PARTY
Dwarf Barbarian 20 // Druid 5/MoMF 10/NatWar 5 --> Frontliner, wannabe powergamer
Elan Kineticist 10/Anarchic Initiate 10 // Psychic Rogue 20 --> Skills monkey and blaster
Human Druid 20 // PsyWar 5/MoMF 10/NatWar 5 --> Frontliner, also wannabe powergamer
Goliath Warblade 16/Bloodstorm Blade 4 // Cloistered Cleric 9/Contemplative 10 --> Tha’s me!
Two MoMF powergamers in the party...a DM that’s pretty much declared that he will match our power level pound-for-pound...I guess I’ll have to grab meself Augment Healing (as always!) just so the shapeshifters can reach that level when they can really shift into god mode (MoMF 7?).
Woah! Good that you only have to take your LA on one side of the progression with all the power gamers around…
Well, that’s been my playing group’s take on level adjustments with gestalt. We’re not sure if it’s RAW, but we don’t really have much of an issue with it.
Yeah… well, there are only two options - make it count on both sides (which sucks big time in gestalt) or only on one (which makes it really powerful). Considering that your ‘mates’ are into powergaming, I see nothing wrong with the second choice.
In the end it always boils down to whether or not the DM can challenge the group and it stays interesting and fun. I’ll cross my fingers for ya that that’ll be the case.
At first I couldn’t remember what Cleric/Bloodstorm Blade build you were talking to, but I managed to find it. I see you’re not using the Holy Word tricks I’d suggested, but I think focusing most of your feats on combat would be better for this character anyway. Note that Bloodstorm Blade’s ability to make your ranged attacks count as melee would allow you to use Sunder, Trip, and Disarm attempts from a distance, and the Goliath’s powerful build bonus would apply to this. I’d use a Goliath Greathammer and take at least one level of Exotic Weapon Master for the Trip Attack trick, and be sure to get Improved Trip and Improved Sunder, as well as Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Another idea would be to include Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist and taking a second EWM level for Stunning Blow, as your Wisdom score should be fairly high. In that case you should also get Ability Focus: Stunning Fist as it’s definitely worth having.
As for the MoMF characters, War Shaper is a much better class than Nature’s Warrior. I’d finish out each of those builds with War Shaper 4/ NatWar 1, and take either Water’s Flow or Wings of the Hurricane, or possibly Serpent’s Coils if the character focuses on grappling, for the one Nature’s Armament gained.
At first I couldn’t remember what Cleric/Bloodstorm Blade build you were talking to, but I managed to find it. I see you’re not using the Holy Word tricks I’d suggested, but I think focusing most of your feats on combat would be better for this character anyway. Note that Bloodstorm Blade’s ability to make your ranged attacks count as melee would allow you to use Sunder, Trip, and Disarm attempts from a distance, and the Goliath’s powerful build bonus would apply to this. I’d use a Goliath Greathammer and take at least one level of Exotic Weapon Master for the Trip Attack trick, and be sure to get Improved Trip and Improved Sunder, as well as Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Another idea would be to include Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist and taking a second EWM level for Stunning Blow, as your Wisdom score should be fairly high. In that case you should also get Ability Focus: Stunning Fist as it’s definitely worth having.
As for the MoMF characters, War Shaper is a much better class than Nature’s Warrior. I’d finish out each of those builds with War Shaper 4/ NatWar 1, and take either Water’s Flow or Wings of the Hurricane, or possibly Serpent’s Coils if the character focuses on grappling, for the one Nature’s Armament gained.
Yeah, I moved away from the Holy Word when I saw the other guys’ tricks, figured the DM already had so much in his hands to mess with him any more. Thanks for the EWM tip. I am using a greathammer at the earliest possible time (and a Large one for 3d6 damage!).
Actually, I was mistaken with the Druid//PsyWar. The other half actually went PsyWar 5/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5. The Barbarian//MoMF wants the full HD for his shapeshifts so he doesn’t want to lose even a NatWar level for a Warshaper.
Actually, I was mistaken with the Druid//PsyWar. The other half actually went PsyWar 5/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5. The Barbarian//MoMF wants the full HD for his shapeshifts so he doesn’t want to lose even a NatWar level for a Warshaper.
The 5th level of Warshaper grants no BAB, no save bonuses, and an ability which he’ll have already gained at MoMF 3, i.e. he may as well take Commoner 1 instead of Warshaper 5. You should point this out to him and maybe suggest that he take the 6th level of Psychic Warrior in place of the 5th level of Warshaper.
There aren’t many good forms in the 16-20 HD range, so the Barbarian wouldn’t be losing out on much by going Warshaper for maybe 3 levels. Even one level is worth taking to gain immunity to critical hits, sneak attacks, stunning, and anything else that would be negated by that. Just remember that its class features are only active while in a different form.
The 5th level of Warshaper grants no BAB, no save bonuses, and an ability which he’ll have already gained at MoMF 3, i.e. he may as well take Commoner 1 instead of Warshaper 5. You should point this out to him and maybe suggest that he take the 6th level of Psychic Warrior in place of the 5th level of Warshaper.
There aren’t many good forms in the 16-20 HD range, so the Barbarian wouldn’t be losing out on much by going Warshaper for maybe 3 levels. Even one level is worth taking to gain immunity to critical hits, sneak attacks, stunning, and anything else that would be negated by that. Just remember that its class features are only active while in a different form.
Thanks a lot for this. The Druid is a bit open-minded and decided to take your advise, squeezing in NatWar 1 into the Warshaper 5 slot. The Barbarian, however, is just that - barbaric and narrow-minded. Won’t even budge. :(
