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Who’s Played 4e?
Posted: 14 April 2008 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Cameron - 13 April 2008 11:21 AM

Black Plauge - 13 April 2008 11:05 AM
Any one got a few quintillion joules worth of energy lying around?  I want to accelerate myself to a significant fraction of the speed of light so that the 50 some odd days until 4e will pass quicker.

You’re the physicist.  I was hoping you’d be the one supplying the method of time acceleration.

The method I’ve got.  I just don’t have the energy to power it, and with the cost of energy these days, there’s no way I can afford to buy it on a grad student’s salary.smile

Doombot -

One roundhouse kick, coming right up.  I’ll try to be gentle.

Hmm… I don’t think that’s in a form I can use.  Can you use some piazo-electric material to convert into electricity and then store it in some superconducting rings?  Conversion losses might require me to use several kicks though, and I wouldn’t want you to strain anything.

Perhaps the only precept taught me by Grandfather Wills that I have honored all my adult life is that profanity and obscenity entitle people who don’t want unpleasant information to close their eyes and ears to you.

Donate rice by improving your vocabulary.

Because you don’t have anything better to do in January in Maine.

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Posted: 14 April 2008 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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The only thing I’d strain are the laws of physics.  I once made a care package for myself and roundhouse kicked it into the mailbox on Tuesday, and got the cookies the previous Thursday.  They were still warm too.

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Posted: 14 April 2008 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Definately can’t use it then.  That’s the wrong direction.  I want to move towards the future, not the past.

Perhaps the only precept taught me by Grandfather Wills that I have honored all my adult life is that profanity and obscenity entitle people who don’t want unpleasant information to close their eyes and ears to you.

Donate rice by improving your vocabulary.

Because you don’t have anything better to do in January in Maine.

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Posted: 14 April 2008 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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M’lord. You need to go slower than light, not faster. I know it’s hard ><

Lord High Vicar, leader of the Earthly Church of Doom

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Posted: 14 April 2008 07:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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It does feel like mmorpg and it leaves a creepy feeling afterwards.

I’d like to hear why you get that feeling.  Not that I doubt you, but I want to know what about it makes you feel like you’ve been on an MMO.

The powers have dramatic effects that have an anime edge to them like the mmorpg’s.  I like the player describing a cool new strike that fits the environment and mood of the game (that only assumes you have players that can do that) but at the same time have an attack that is just mechanics.  The powers come pre-loaded with the effect/description so things were lost there for me. (because I do have those players).

The rest is cool.  I like the marking feature, as long as its not described stupid.  My players figured the archer could slaughter anything if he was up high and two marking characters stood far apart and took turns marking to make the creature run back and forth while getting peppered from the archer.  We didn’t play it but it came up as a way to break the feature.  I will house rule that when it fails to live up to the spirit of the feature then it doesn’t work.

I just assume the pre-gens were very limited and when we can sit down and make characters then whole package will make sense.

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Posted: 15 April 2008 12:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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My Dungeon Master and I have already played two sessions of our prologue campaign, which uses the 4th Edition mechanics and the Dungeons of Dread stats. It works really well!

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Posted: 15 April 2008 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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SPQR Anarchy - 14 April 2008 07:03 PM

The rest is cool.  I like the marking feature, as long as its not described stupid.  My players figured the archer could slaughter anything if he was up high and two marking characters stood far apart and took turns marking to make the creature run back and forth while getting peppered from the archer.

The way I would rule this is that if it is an intelligent creature then it realizes what is going on and sticks with the better marker (in this case the pali since his mark is -2 to hit and +8 damage as opposed to the fighter, just -2 to hit) Yea he is at -2 to hit, but better than just run back and forth.  this brings up 1 of the issues I have with the pregens, that the pali is a better tank than the Fighter.  I am hoping that this is just a difference in builds and that a “tank” built fighter is a better tank than a “tank” built pali.

Also do not forget:
1)that the fighters mark says “When you attack you may mark THE enemy...” (emphasis mine) so the fighter has to attack the the enemy to mark him.  This means the fighter either has to a)be within melee range (hence no ping ponging back and forth) b)use a ranged weapon which means he can not use his special abilities, or c)shoot his bow, drop it, draw his sword, rinse and repeat every round which should incure some penalty.
2) the Pali’s challenge only has a range of 5 (close burst 5 means every square within 5 of him is effected).  I do not remember seeing a creature that has less than 5 movement (not saying there are not, just I do not remember them) so most enemies should still be able to move the 5 squares and attack.

Hope that helps.

"Josh is an awesome speller. One of his best sentence in my game is ‘Taes will make planes with Narthos to meat in the ally.’ “- Darken

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Posted: 15 April 2008 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Good analysis, Josh. I believe you are correct.

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Posted: 15 April 2008 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Kyle Watt - 15 April 2008 07:13 AM

Good analysis, Josh. I believe you are correct.

LOL, that proves 4e is easier than the 3s, no one has ever complimented me on my rules knowledge before.smile

"Josh is an awesome speller. One of his best sentence in my game is ‘Taes will make planes with Narthos to meat in the ally.’ “- Darken

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Posted: 15 April 2008 05:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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SuperJosh - 15 April 2008 02:06 PM

LOL, that proves 4e is easier than the 3s, no one has ever complimented me on my rules knowledge before.smile

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Posted: 21 April 2008 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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This weekend I ran a session using the “Raiders of Oakhurst” adventure that I found linked around here somewhere and the pregen characters from wizards.  I was the DM and I had 4 veteran D&D players.  None of us had any prior 4th edition experience.

All of the players enjoyed the game.  We all agreed that the transition from 3rd to 4th should be quite simple.  Each of the individual mechanics seemed well thought out and quite straightforward.  The players who where playing the fighter and ranger were very impressed at the number of meaningful options that they had with a such a simple set of abilities.  Healing and buffing from the paladin and cleric were a joy instead of a drudgery.  We all felt that the casters (warlock and wizard) were a little on the weak side.  It always seemed that their basic ranged spell was the preferred course of action.

The combination of healing waves and per encounter resources is, in my opinion, a very exciting change.  A character can be viewed as have many more hit points than what is listed on the sheet.  In a way, each character has Total HP = Max HP + (Healing waves/day * Healing/Wave).  However, it is only the Max HP (plus a wave or 2 I suppose) that matter for any given encounter.  Because only a fraction of the Characters Total HP are available for any given encounter (Wizard = 20 of 50; Fighter = 33 of 137), as a DM you can challenge a group with a single encounter that is actually much easier than a challenging encounter from 3rd edition.  This allows the DM to keep the level of intensity (potential for characters to loose) very high on each encounter without overtaxing the characters through the course of several encounters.

There are a couple of points that I am still a bit apprehensive about.  The simple handling of effect duration with 1. A round, 2. Till save, or 3. end of encounter, while easy to track is a bit limiting.  We were also a little concerned with the entire concept of a flat saving throw.  Why is it not a check against one of the 4 established defenses vs a variable DC?

From a DM perspective, even the very first encounter, which had some complexity, was easier to run that many similar 3rd edition encounters.  Minions are great, and the recharge of abilities based on a die roll is a wonderful idea.  This gives monsters great feel and flexibility without over complication and also can keep players and DMs guessing about the monsters actions because what abilities are available can change from round to round.  It seems odd that they did not tie this roll to a D20 and give themselves more room to adjust probabilities.  It is also worth noting that the one “caster” monster present in this module sorely needed an at will “magic missile” type effect.  After I had burnt all of its spells I actually ran the monster around for a few rounds waiting to roll 5 or 6 so that I could cast again.

The solo or elite monster at the end of the adventure was a huge letdown.  It simply had many hit points and very high defenses but was not really interesting.  I was under the impression that solo monsters would be doing more outside of their turns in initiative.  It was getting quite late and this encounter was very long and boring.  My players and I simply calculated that they would probably win and went to bed before the monster was even “bloodied” (which is also a very good mechanic).  This monster still suffered from the fact that it got one action while the characters got 4.  For a solo monster to work as I expected, it will need to take about the same number of actions as all of the characters combined, but all of these actions need to be spaced out throughout the round.  Unfortunately, I do not have a simple answer for this gripe.

All in all we were pleased and we all plan on investing the money and switching to the new system as soon as it comes out.

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Posted: 21 April 2008 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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Mourn - 21 April 2008 11:10 AM

The solo or elite monster at the end of the adventure was a huge letdown.  It simply had many hit points and very high defenses but was not really interesting.  I was under the impression that solo monsters would be doing more outside of their turns in initiative.  It was getting quite late and this encounter was very long and boring.  My players and I simply calculated that they would probably win and went to bed before the monster was even “bloodied” (which is also a very good mechanic).  This monster still suffered from the fact that it got one action while the characters got 4.  For a solo monster to work as I expected, it will need to take about the same number of actions as all of the characters combined, but all of these actions need to be spaced out throughout the round.  Unfortunately, I do not have a simple answer for this gripe.

I do not know whether you took this into acount or not, but the solo monster in question does get an out of turn attack (if you are using the Black Dragon).  Every time a player misses it with a melee atack it gets to make an immediate attack at +8 vs AC for 1d6+4 damage.  Given the dragons high AC (24 or 22 depending on which stats you use) this could be a good number of extra attacks a round.

I recently ran the dragon against a group of 6 players and it had them running around like dirt farmers.smile Seriously it dropped the cleric twice and had the fighter (or pali I can not remember which) almost dead and it was not even bloodied. There is no doubt in my mind it would have won even though it was rolling HORRIBLE for it’s recharges. Part of that was that it got a suprise round on them, but the fact that it can effectively shut down the only character with more than a 25ish% chance to hit is huge.

I am glad you all enjoyed 4e, so far almost every group I have ran has LOVED 4e, the sole exception being a group that is still playing 2e!

"Josh is an awesome speller. One of his best sentence in my game is ‘Taes will make planes with Narthos to meat in the ally.’ “- Darken

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Posted: 21 April 2008 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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You’re such a fanboy, Josh!  tongue wink

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Posted: 21 April 2008 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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Tashalar - 21 April 2008 11:54 AM

You’re such a fanboy, Josh!  tongue wink

LOL, so much so I freely admit it.smile

"Josh is an awesome speller. One of his best sentence in my game is ‘Taes will make planes with Narthos to meat in the ally.’ “- Darken

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Posted: 21 April 2008 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Josh,

I was using the Tail Swipe.  My players realized what was going on pretty early and simply started using their ranged attacks.  They spread out and the fighter attempted to keep the dragon from chasing the softer targets.  My group was Fighter, Ranger, Cleric, Wizard so they were predisposed to do this anyway.

Perhaps I could have beaten them, but all they have to do to restrict the dragon to one action was stop attacking it in melee.  Perhaps I need to look at the movement and combat advantage situations again to see that I was doing everything right.

I just feel like another interrupt ability that triggered on a different event.  Or perhaps even just giving it 2 places in initiative would help out the “it then us” feel of the encounter.  Perhaps even some mechanic that allows the “solo” monster’s abilities to scale with the number of characters?

I’m not saying that the challenge was not appropriate, just that is was not really any more “fun” than fighting a single large opponent from 3rd edition.

Mourn

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