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Help with a kobold character - 6th level
Posted: 30 April 2008 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Natural Attacks: A dragonkin is proficient
with its claw attacks, which deal 1d6
points of damage each. If it uses a claw as
a secondary weapon (along with a
weapon held in the other hand), it
takes the normal penalties for
two-weapon fighting.
When making a full attack
while airborne, a dragonkin
character may also make
two additional attacks
with its rear claws at its
full base attack bonus
(with a –5 penalty if
also attacking with a
weapon).

The part about TWF penalties is under the description of the claw attacks, specifically for a one-handed weapon with a claw attack. The rake attacks are completely separate, and take note that every monster with a rake attack gets only half their strength bonus to damage but does not suffer the -5 attack penalty for it being a secondary attack, though the character entry says to apply this penalty to its rakes.

You should see if your DM will let you take Dragonwrought (RotD), since this would be a creature both very similar to kobolds with regards to ancestry and having been raised as though he was a kobold. I doubt his racial hit dice would change from monstrous humanoid to dragon, but even if it didn’t you’d still qualify for some nice feats from the Draconomicon. You should also keep any prospective prestige classes in mind when choosing your feats. Another thing to note is that they’re only proficient with simple weapons, so you’ll probably be suck with a Longspear for your only option for a reach weapon, though you can still take Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency for something better. Maybe go into Exotic Weapon Master for tricks like Trip Attack and maybe Uncanny Blow if you’ll be using a one-handed weapon in two hands, such as a Tigerskull Club (FB). You should have at least 10 Int to max out both Spot and Listen, your only two racial class skills, maybe higher if you’ll be taking Exotic Weapon Master for the Craft ranks required. If you’ll be going War Hulk though I’d just put your Int as low as possible and spend your one point/level on cross-class Intimidate ranks. In that case, the feat Frightful Presence (DCN) would be an excellent choice.

[ Edited: 30 April 2008 03:29 PM by Biffoniacus Furious]
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Posted: 01 May 2008 12:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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The DM wasn’t online yesterday, so no update from that department.

You should see if your DM will let you take Dragonwrought (RotD), since this would be a creature both very similar to kobolds with regards to ancestry and having been raised as though he was a kobold.

I’ll talk to him - maybe he’ll even grant me the ability to be able to take those feats without getting dragonwrought… that would be the best solution imo with the small amount of feats available.

Maybe go into Exotic Weapon Master for tricks like Trip Attack and maybe Uncanny Blow if you’ll be using a one-handed weapon in two hands, such as a Tigerskull Club (FB).

That sounds like the way to go for the character I had in mind. The club is nicely brutal - and gets a nifty +2 bonus on trip and disarm. And when I already have to invest a feat to gain martial weapon proficiency I might as well get a nice exotic weapon immediately. smile

Furthermore, I might still go into war hulk afterwards (I don’t think the campaign would go that far though).

I’ll get back to you when I’ve got confirmation from the DM. Thanks!

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Posted: 01 May 2008 06:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Okay, I’m ready for the finer points of character building. smile

The 6 HD dragonkin has the official DM okay.

I’ve got 13k in gold to spend and I may use flaws (2 at the most).

Here’s what I’ve come up with (going to take the 7th racial HD on level up and then going into Exotic Weapon master):
Flaws: Shaky and… don’t know yet.

Feats: Exotic weapon prof. Tigerskull club, Weapon focus (TS club), Power attack, cleave + X (if I take another flaw)

Items (13k to spend):
300 gp - crystal of return (least - draw weapon as free action)
2330 gp - large +1 tigerskull club
1200 gp - large +1 studded leather
1000 gp - cloak of protection
500 gp - crystal of arrow deflection (least - +2 to AC vs. ranged attacks)
4100 gp - armbands of might
_______________
9430 gp

I considered taking bloodfeeding for the club, but then I’d need to have 6k free somehow (it would be nice to accumulate blood tokens by smashing little humans to bits and then using them for extra damage on the leaders/adventurers). Any other suggestions for the 3,5k gp I have left?
Edit: Just saw the bracers of opportunity which grant a continuous +2 competence bonus on AoOs and grant an AoO even if you have reached your limit twice per day (that part is not that great - the +2 bonus is though). I would have to swap them out with the armbands of might, or pay 1,5 the price to add the ability to the armbands. Hrhm.. that would bring me up to around 13k gp…

Stats (all start at 10, 23 points to spend on a 1 on 1 basis):
24 Str (10 +7 points +1 level up +6 racial)
20 Dex (10 +8 points +2 racial)
20 Con (10 +8 points +2 racial)
10 Int
12 Wis (10 +2 racial)
12 Cha (10 +2 racial)

Saves:
+8 Fortitude (+2 base +1 resis +5 Con)
+11 Reflex (+5 base +1 resis +5 Dex)
+7 Will (+5 base +1 resis +1 Wis)

Edit: How about deft opportunist for another +4 to attack on attack of opportunities? Together with the bracers that would mean a +6 to attack. Rather crazy combined with some nice power attack. Now… what other flaw would make sense for the dragonkin? I’m thinking either murky-eyed or, even better, unreactive. Initiative won’t be that important in this scenario I think.

[ Edited: 01 May 2008 12:06 PM by Tashalar]
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Posted: 01 May 2008 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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You probably need Combat Reflexes, especially if you take Unreactive since you can’t AoO when flat-footed.

I’ll assume that you’ll get the other +2 Str and Wis at your 7th racial HD.

If you got Exotic Weapon Master into War Hulk, you’ll lose your EWM class features due to the War Hulk’s 1st level ability No Time To Think. Your Int-, Wis-, and Cha-based skills will all drop to 0 ranks, including the EWM’s prerequisite Craft ranks. Maybe consider taking Barbarian to finish out the character, especially one of the UA variants such as Wolf Totem for Improved Trip, or Dragon Totem for the theme and useful abilities. The free Blind Fight feat would make up for taking Murky-Eyed, and the Frightful Presence ability would be amazing if you also take the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon, since they’d become Frightened if they failed both saves. Be sure to take Extra Rage (CW) if you do go into Barbarian, so you’ll be able to rage more than just 1/day.

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Posted: 01 May 2008 07:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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Oddly enough I liked my kobold build so much, I decided to use it in an 8th level campaign I had to adjust the stats and a couple of the spells to fit with the different style but I was immediately able to buy off one point of the LA.
I also added a couple flaws for point blank and precise shot.

He did fairly well flying above the battle field blasting creatures with split ray scorching ray’s. Or enfeebling multiple Yuntai Abominations with a split ray of enfeeblement spells. Also simple fireballs worked very well.

“Fear my scaly wraith… fear it!”

I keep intending to start planing ahead but I keep putting it off.

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Posted: 01 May 2008 10:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Here are the ‘parameters’:

Level:6 (usually, see below).
Starting money: Standard DMG, but see below.
Race: kobold, or atleast give me a VERY good reason why you aren’t.
Books allowed: any, but munchkins will be executed without fail.
Homebrew: case by case, but generally accepted unless it’s broken or doesn’t fit.

Stats: all stats start at 10 (before racial adjustments). You have 23 points to distribute as you see fit on a 1-for-1 basis, max 18.

Bonuses: one free dragon-related feat or one free level in a dragon-related class. Alternatively, you may have the LA of a dragon-related template reduced by 2, to a minimum of 0 (my call if a feat/class/template counts or not).

You also have 60 CR of traps to spend for free, max CR 7. I decide the CR of homebrew traps.

Lastly, Mithril and Tin are at a 20% discount, due to being readily available.

He made an adjustment though - the half-dragon template still costs +2 LA if you want the entire strength bonus.
Books allowed should be all WotC - and anything that isn’t taken because it’s powerful. wink

So. Since I made the sorcerer for the flying challenge not too long ago, I would again like to make a sorcerer (even though I’m open to other ideas). For a draconic template I was looking at the dragonspawn templates in the Dragonlance book - even though I’ll have to offer to nerf them lest the DM will smite me for munchkinism. A flying, breath weapon using sorcerer does sound nifty though. I’ll offer to reduce the fly speed and the natural armor… that should be enough.

I’m entirely open to other nifty idea though. smile

Edit: Oh, clarification on the traps part. We’re going to be a tribe of kobolds who defend our ‘homeland’ against human(oid) attacks.. I think. We get to build up some defenses… but first I need to figure out a fun character before we start dealing with traps.

First:  Posting the requirements to a D&D bulletin board and hoping to mine the community for the most powerful possible character is inherently munchkinly, so given that you’ve already crossed that line, I’ll disregard it in my build as well.

Second:  “Abominations result when creatures other than humans and half-elves are subjected to the same process that creates dragonspawn.” (Bestiary of Krynn, p. 24.  So I’ll consider the abomination dragonspawn template and other dragon-related templates, but the straight dragonspawn template is right out.  The abomination dragonspawn template only has an LA of +1, and I’d rather get the most benefit I can, so that’s out as well.  The LA of the sea dragonspawn template, however, is +2, as is that of the dragon vassal template.  The LA of the half-dragon template is +3, and I’d rather not deal with level adjustment, so for now it’s a tie between sea dragonspawn and dragon vassal.  Sea dragonspawn increases CR by 2 and dragon vassal by 1, indicating sea dragonspawn would seem to be the more valuable template, so sea dragonspawn it is.

Classes:  I would like to use a class or classes that enhance the existing benefits of being a kobold (Dexterity, AC, attack bonus, Hide, Craft, Profession, and Search).  All classes have Craft and Profession as class skills, but (in the PHB) only ranger and rogue have Hide and Search as class skills.  The expert may have Hide and Search as class skills, but is specifically noted as less powerful than other classes.  The ninja, scout, and spellthief each have Hide and Search listed as class skills, so I’ll keep Complete Adventurer handy.  Strengh and Constitution, which are penalized for kobolds, are important to rangers and spellthieves, so I’ll eliminate those as well.  Rangers have more hit points, rogues have more skill points, they all have comparable weapon proficiencies, ninjas can’t use armor or shields, rangers have better attack bonuses, saves, and as many special abilities as ninjas, which is more than rogues--so ranger it is, for first level, anyway.

Finally:  I got this far (see below) with this before discovering sea dragonspawn can’t breathe air, which might be a problem for most campaigns . . . can amphibious be taken as a feat?

Chim
Male Sea Dragonspawn Kobold Ranger 2/Rogue 2/Ninja 2: CR 8; Small monstrous humanoid (aquatic, augmented humanoid [reptilian], reptilian, water); HD 2d8+3 (ranger) plus 2d6+6 (rogue) plus 2d6+6 (ninja); hp 42; Init +3; spd 30 ft., Swim 50 ft.; AC 27 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 Wis, +10 natural); Atk +4 melee (1d3+3 bite) or -1 melee (2 claws 1d3+1); SQ Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, light sensitivity; AL NE; SV Fort +5, Ref +12, Will +5; Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 18.  Height 2½’.
Skills and Feats:  Climb +12, Heal +11, Hide +16, Listen +12, Move Silently +12, Search +13, Spot +12, Survival +10*; TrackB,.

Chim is a short, reptilian humanoid with cowardly and sadistic tendencies.
His scaly skin is rusty black.  He has glowing red eyes.  His tail is nonprehensile.  He wears ragged clothing, favoring red and orange.  He is 2 ½ feet tall and 45 pounds.  He speaks Draconic with a voice that sounds like that of a yipping dog, as well as Common and Undercommon.
Sorcerer spells known: 
Skills: Chim has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim checks to perform special actions or avoid a hazard.  He an always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered.  He can use the run action while swimming, provided he swims in a straight line.
Chim receives a +2 bonus on Survival checks to find or follow tracks.
Possessions: 
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:  Chim is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the hand crossbow, kama, nunchaku, rapier, sai, shuriken, and siangham, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
AC Bonus (Ex):  Chim is highly trained at dodging blows, and he has a sixth sense that lets him avoid even unanticipated attacks.  When unarmored and unencumberd, Chim adds +3 to his Armor Class.
This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when Chim is flat-footed.  Chim loses this bonus when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Aquatic Subtype:  Chim has a swim speed and therefore can move in water without making Swim checks. Chim can breathe underwater. He cannot also breathe air.
Augmented Subtype:  Chim has the traits of the monstrous humanoid type, but the features of the humanoid (reptilian) type.
Breath Weapon (Su):  30-foot cone, once every 2d4 rounds, damage 2d8 fire, Reflex save DC 16 half; effective both on the surface and underwater.  The save DC is Constitution-based.
Combat Style (Ex):  Chim is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat.
Death Throes (Su):  When Chim is killed, it deals 1d8 points of fire damage to all creatures within 10 feet (DC 16 Reflex save for half damage).
Evasion (Ex):  Chim can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if Chim is wearing light armor or no armor. Chim does not gain the benefit of evasion when helpless.
Favored Enemy (Ex):  Due to his extensive study of his fellow kobolds and training in the proper techniques for combating such creatures, Chim gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against kobolds.  Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against kobolds.
Ghost Step (Su):  Chim can spend one daily use of his ki power to become invisible for 1 round.  Using this ability is a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Ki Power (Su):  Chim can channel his ki to manifest special powers of stealth and mobility.  He can use his ki power four times per day, but only if he is wearing no armor and is unencumbered.
As long as Chim’s ki pool isn’t empty (that is, as long as he has at least one daily use remaining), he gains a +2 bonus on his Will saves.
Chim’s ki power is ghost step.  It is described in a separate entry above.
Reptilian Subtype:  Chim is scaly and coldblooded.
Sneak Attack:  If Chim can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
Chim’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6. Should Chim score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, Chim can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.
Chim can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. Chim must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. Chim cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
Sudden Strike:  If Chim can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage.  Whenever a target is denied a Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), Chim deals an extra 1d6 points of damage with his attack.  Chim can’t use sudden strike when flanking an opponent unless that opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC.
This damage also applies to ranged attacks against targets up to 30 feet away.  Creatures with concealment, creatures without discernible anatomies, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are all immune to sudden strikes.  Chim can’t make a sudden strike while striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are out of reach.
Chim can’t use sudden strike to deliver nonlethal damage.  Weapons capable of dealing only nonlethal damage don’t deal extra damage when used as part of a sudden strike.
The extra damage from the sudden strike ability stracks with the extra damage from sneak attack whenever both would apply to the same target.
Track:  Chim has Track as a bonus feat.
Trapfinding (Ex):  Chim can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.
Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
Chim can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
If Chim beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check, he can study itp, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.
Water Subtype:  Chim has a swim speed and can move in water without making Swim checks.  He can breathe underwater.
Wild Empathy (Ex): Chim can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. Chim rolls 1d20+6 to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

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Posted: 01 May 2008 11:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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It should be noted that as dragonspawn gain the subtype of the dragon they are spawned after.

Water Subtype
This subtype usually is used for elementals and outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane of Water. Creatures with the water subtype always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. A water creature can breathe underwater and usually can breathe air as well.

So the sea dragonspawn can breathe air. (also in the revised beastry of krynn they give sea dragons an Amphibious special quality.)

This also means that a black dragon spawn should gain a swim speed due to gaining the subtype.

One nice thing I noticed is the sample sea dragonspawn in both original and revised Bestiary of Krynn calculates the breath weapon DC with class levels. The original printing of the template showed a disregard for class levels in the save DC in the sample spawn.

A couple important changes in the revised Bestiary of Krynn for the template are are dragonspawn’s type simply changes to dragon. So a kobold dragonspawn’s type would be
Small dragon (aquatic, augmented humanoid, reptilian, water).

They also gain immunity to sleep and paralysis and immunity to the energy of their own breath weapon. I found it kinda funny that black, green, and blue dragonspawn could be damaged by their own breath weapon because the subtype they gained doesn’t grant them any energy immunity.

[ Edited: 01 May 2008 11:24 PM by Lord Vukodlak]

I keep intending to start planing ahead but I keep putting it off.

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Posted: 01 May 2008 11:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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You probably need Combat Reflexes, especially if you take Unreactive since you can’t AoO when flat-footed.

Uh… combat reflexes was supposed to be there. I just forgot to type it up - probably because it’s the most obvious choice. *shakes head*

I’ll assume that you’ll get the other +2 Str and Wis at your 7th racial HD.

Yes, indeed. He only gets +6 natural armor as well for now.

If you got Exotic Weapon Master into War Hulk, you’ll lose your EWM class features due to the War Hulk’s 1st level ability No Time To Think.

Ah. Well, I’ll drop the war hulk idea then - even though after putting up a tentative sheet, someone else suggested it as well. smile
Barbarian sounds like a good choice - and the unearthed arcana alternatives as well.

Btw - the DM won’t allow shaky for this character for *cough* obvious reasons. I’ll get unreactive and murky-eyed instead.

He did fairly well flying above the battle field blasting creatures with split ray scorching ray’s. Or enfeebling multiple Yuntai Abominations with a split ray of enfeeblement spells. Also simple fireballs worked very well.

Sounds neat!

First:  Posting the requirements to a D&D bulletin board and hoping to mine the community for the most powerful possible character is inherently munchkinly, so given that you’ve already crossed that line, I’ll disregard it in my build as well.

First: Thanks for trying to help me out. smile

Second: I’m not looking for the most powerful build out there. I’m looking for suggestion on fun and reasonably powerful builds. smile

The dragonkin ‘kobold hulk’ as he’s already called in the game I chose for fun, really. I honestly expect him to be downed at some point (hopefully not killed, but probably removed for the fight for a while) because most of the human’s offensive power will be concentrated on him. I do want him to take a lot of the squishy humans down with him though!

I’ll look into your suggestion later today, but I already am 95% decided to go kobold hulk, so… it’ll only serve as a backup plan, I guess.

Edit: Here’s a link to the character sheet.
http://plothook.net/RPG/profiler/view.php?id=3548

[ Edited: 02 May 2008 03:02 AM by Tashalar]
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Posted: 02 May 2008 05:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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A creature of the aquatic subtype, “cannot also breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality.” A creature of the water subtype, ”usually can breathe air as well,” but the aquatic subtype specifically contradicts this, and the water subtype is not the same as the amphibious special ability.  Amphibious, however, is listed as a feat in Mutants & Masterminds, so I’ll use that for this (seems to me it’s probably listed in one or another D&D splatbook as well, probably Savage Species, but I can’t seem to find it elsewhere). smile

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Posted: 02 May 2008 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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Drakey - 02 May 2008 05:19 AM

A creature of the aquatic subtype, “cannot also breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality.” A creature of the water subtype, ”usually can breathe air as well,” but the aquatic subtype specifically contradicts this, and the water subtype is not the same as the amphibious special ability.  Amphibious, however, is listed as a feat in Mutants & Masterminds, so I’ll use that for this (seems to me it’s probably listed in one or another D&D splatbook as well, probably Savage Species, but I can’t seem to find it elsewhere). smile

And as I already said in my previous post, the Revised Bestiary of Krynn gives the Sea Dragonspawn the amphibious special quality.

[ Edited: 02 May 2008 09:28 AM by Lord Vukodlak]

I keep intending to start planing ahead but I keep putting it off.

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