4th & Dragon : Dungeons and Dragons...and stuff

I am not sure if you need anything more than just a +1 staff. Save some gold and aim for +2 staff as fast as possible.
Implement bonuses are amazing for wizards, since they make so many attack and damage rolls per combat. Additionally the extra d6’s when you crit come into play more often since you make more attacks.

If you play by the default economy rules it is often a good idea to wait a bit before getting the best equipment possible. The gold you save can be used more efficiently later when you have more options.

SJ, how does the wizard have the highest AC in the group?  Is it because your using light armor and that allows you to add your INT modifier to your score?

Ha ha I am still impressed either way (or maybe a little sad that someone else doesn’t have higher)

I like the warmage staff bc it ups the extra die from critting to 1d8 and it also lets me expand the area of 1 of my AoE spells by 1 as a daily.

Plus my DM is pretty against just being able to buy magic items so if I do not get it now there is no telling when I will get an upgrade.

OK, sounds like the Warmage’s staff comes handy then. I forgot the area boost, which is actually really nice with TW.

Chad Reynolds - 08 August 2008 09:35 AM

SJ, how does the wizard have the highest AC in the group?  Is it because your using light armor and that allows you to add your INT modifier to your score?

Ha ha I am still impressed either way (or maybe a little sad that someone else doesn’t have higher)

Yea adding Int, plus the +1 from staff mastery.  It also helps that the player playing the pali decided to forgo a shield and plate armor so his AC is… sucky…

Wow, I might be new but I just don’t see why a pally would do that. Is he gaining any kind of extra benefit?  Like using a versatile weapon to get a +1 to damage rolls

And why no plate armor?  I mean pally’s are proficient in it.

Just trying to get a feel for things other people do for future reference, sorry if I am asking too many questions

Personally Plate<Scale. The benefits out way the minor AC bump.

Would you please explain that for me?  I just don’t think I am seeing it and would like to see where you are coming from

Scale Armor doesn’t have the -2 Check Penalty to Physical skill checks. Scale has the option to have the speed penalty negated by the paragon tier feat Armor Specialization (Scale). It is also 5gp cheaper and 5lbs lighter, which can matter as a beginning character.

This is similar to the reason why I would most likely choose leather over hide until paragon level, when Armor Specialization becomes available.

I do not agree. AC is worth a lot at low levels when most enemies’ attacks target AC.
-2 to physical skills is moot if you get +1 AC in return.

I do agree that scale might be better at paragon tier, but I lack the experience in the matter. Anyway, since paladins don’t even need a feat to wear plate, I’d say not wearing it is a mistake.

Example. Many enemies in KotS have +6 to hit against AC.
Paladin in Plate armor and heavy shield has AC 20. He gets hit on 14+ (enemies miss you 65% of the time)
Paladin in Scale armor with heavy shield has AC 19. He gets hit on 13+ (miss 60%)
Paladin in Scale armor and no shield has AC 17. He gets hit on 11+ (miss 55%)

This shows that those enemies miss you around 15%-20% more often if you have AC 20 than 17. (65%/55% relatively speaking). This is way better than -2 to athletics and endurance (acrobatics are not going to succeed much anyway).

I see your point. One point of AC can be make or break for being hit, but I personally think that it depends on the character. I do concede that a Paladin should be wearing plate. I made the point as an extension of this argument a few weeks ago with a Warlord Player who bought into scale and was debating plate as well.

Do you then prefer leather over hide for Rogues and Rangers? That check penalty is more important to them.

But it is -4 penalty to get that AC20 or -2 to get 19 in your examples.

I usually have the pally take plate since he has it without a feat, but I hardly use Heavy shield over light shield to avoid the -4 penalty to most of the skills alot that are dex based and my paladin’s tend to have very low dex.

The fighters I make mostly have Scale for no check penalty and a light shield again for no penalty.  I don’t tend to see them get hit all that much more often with their 18 instead of 17 or 20.  This also allows my fighter to succeed on some checks and still keep a feat.

I do tend to design by concept more and sometimes I have a plate wearing fighter with a heavy shield, but IMO for bang for buck I dont think the +1 ac is worth -2penalty for either the scale to plate or the light shield to heavy shield.  Especially for fighters who have to spend a feat for it.  The shield does provide that +2 to reflex too which makes it have a little more bang for your buck for upgrading.

If the campaign I was in didn’t see me using my skills that much or using them for the new skill challenge rules then maybe I would do it.

So I think that pally’s should wear plate (unless they knew it was gonna be a very skill intensive campaign) and the shield is kinda up in the air.

I think that being a defender class, unless there are multiple ones to spread out the job, they should probably take the heavy or at least the light shield.

I think that sacrificing at least the light shield for anything I can think of right now is a bad call.  Cause even if you just take the light shield you can grab items and climb so all you use is the ability for 2-handed weapons and holding a versatile weapon with two hands (so says the PHB on pg 214) but if someone has a point against that, I would be happy to listen

As for the shields, a paladin or a fighter rarely has to make acrobatics checks in combat since they don’t even have it trained. Out of combat when faced with a skill check (such as climbing etc.) just take off the shield and carry it strapped to your back. I don’t remember fully, but I think it is not too difficult to take off the shield even in combat (IIRC it is one standard action).

For rogues and rangers I probably prefer hide armor for the most part. Depends a bit what style of a game it is.
If there is plenty of combat I want my AC. Also, depends on the combat style. For a melee rogue a hide armor is a given, but for an archer ranger not so much.