For those of you who jumped aboard and managed to get your hands on the first copies of the d20 Advanced Adventure Roleplaying Game, I thought it’d be nice to make good use of Jim’s generosity of a donated forum and start a topic for a little Q&A. It’s a brand new game, there are probably plenty of questions out there about how the rules work, how to build a character, or just why some of the design choices in the game were made the way they were, so I wanted to open up a thread where I could address those questions for interested gamers out there.
1. How does D20 Advanced differ from other D20 systems out there? What are its advantages, disadvantages, and game philosophy?
d20 Advanced is different in some pretty fundamental ways. Character generation is skill-based / point buy (though it still uses familiar Abilities, Skills, and Feats), which is an advantage when you want maximum flexibility, but a disadvantage if you like fast character generation.
The basic engine of d20 + modifier vs. DC is still there, and indeed more things have been folded into this basic concept, so once you’re playing the game, things should be immediately familiar to most folks who have played other d20 System games. Combat has been cleaned up in a lot of places, based upon the notion that it should be easy to resolve most things that players would want to try during a fight.
The overall philosophy of the game would probably best be described as, “Maximize options but minimize book-flipping.” The game gives you the building blocks to create just about anything, and once you bring your creations to the gaming table, the rules shouldn’t get in the way of your good time. Essentially, options are good when they enhance the game, but sometimes (especially on the GM’s side of things), a shortcut that can do the job almost as well in half the time is better.
Utgardloki - 20 August 2008 08:06 PM
2. Is there an interest in D20 Advanced support products such as game settings, adventures, etc?
I certainly hope there is. At the moment, I’m hoping to support the game with both full-out campaign settings (with fantasy / steam-ish Knights Over Mideros, a modern mini-setting in the American Southwest I’ve yet to name, and a future semi-hard-sci-fi space opera) as well as genre books (such as the upcoming How I Survived the Zombie Apocalypse and Spoof!), pre-packaged characters for use as PCs, NPCs, or just inspirations (Heroes of Heritage and possibly an expansion of the Fantasy Heroes freebie I posted), and big “treasure trove” books with lots of pre-built options (like The Great Gear Guide, an unnamed martial arts book, and possibly an independently-released Magic of Mideros guide).
Utgardloki - 20 August 2008 08:06 PM
3. Can other D20 resources such as prestige classes and creatures be used directly in a D20 Advanced game, or is some conversion required?
Conversion would be required. The game is point-buy and effects-based. Most conversions true to the spirit of existing characters would be pretty easy, though direct ports exactly replicating mechanics from other games would be difficult. Luckily, creatures are pretty easy to create (the NPC chapter at the end of the book walks you through creating an encounter from the ground up, including creating NPC enemies basically from scratch in minutes).
At the moment, all that’s out is the core rules, which are much more of a toolkit. As I manage to get more products out the door, there’ll be more foundation for specific genres or settings and the like.
What exactly is d20 advance, i mean with pathfinder out who prospose another way to play d20, how does d20 advance fit in? Is it focus on a more modern setting or what?
I think right now for our fantasy game we will stick with 4th but we are looking for a good system for a modern setting, could d20 advance be it?
With the capabilities that d20^ has to change genres/settings/etc is there one in particular that you think may be highly difficult or even not possible?
Are there further playtest PbPs going on and will their be open playtesting of your upcoming settings/expansions/etc?
What exactly is d20 advance, i mean with pathfinder out who prospose another way to play d20, how does d20 advance fit in? Is it focus on a more modern setting or what?
I think right now for our fantasy game we will stick with 4th but we are looking for a good system for a modern setting, could d20 advance be it?
I designed d20 Advanced to be as open and generic as possible, making it adaptable to any genre. However, you’re actually in luck, since the skillset I included in the core rules probably works best for a modern-style game.
Talae - 21 August 2008 07:52 AM
With the capabilities that d20^ has to change genres/settings/etc is there one in particular that you think may be highly difficult or even not possible?
Very, very good question. I’d obviously like to think that d20^ can handle anything you could throw at it. I do, however, think that d20^ will handle wealth in a way that’s simply not the same as you’d be used to for “kill monsters and take their stuff"-style fantasy gaming. I’ve actually got some ideas in the works for a “Salvage” skill which lets you gain wealth or equipment points from enemies you defeat, which should do the job.
I’m also tempted to echo the crowd and say that d20 in general doesn’t do horror that well. It’s not Dread. But I’ve been pretty pleased how the “everyman” design I used for How I Survived the Zombie Apocalypse has played out, how Fear Dice wind up working to represent horror, and in general how that game hangs together.
As it stands now, d20^ is not good for pick-up games: character creation is too involved. I hope to rectify that as I work on new products which offer “packages” of powers and show how you can use the base character creation rules to create a more restricted class-based system.
The only other genre I have trouble seeing d20^ working well with are where the group has disparate power levels (the current icon of this would be Buffy, where there’s the Slayer, and then there’s everyone else). I can think of a few ways to equalize things (with underdog rules for earning bonus Hero Dice), but I’m not really satisfied yet.
Talae - 21 August 2008 07:52 AM
Are there further playtest PbPs going on and will their be open playtesting of your upcoming settings/expansions/etc?
I absolutely hope to do this. I’d ideally like to make d20^ even more open than Pathfinder’s development has been. I’ve been looking into ways to upgrade the wiki (and will probably wind up finding a new host in the future) to really encourage the community in general to provide constant feedback and help grow the ruleset by showing how they’re using it, with their own worlds and characters, their own variants for rules, or just about anything else. At this point it’s just a matter of figuring out the “how” rather than the “if”. So short version, just to be clear: yes, yes, a thousand times yes
I think for the “buffy” problem, perhaps the best solution would be to focus the characters’ missions so each one is essential and has something to do. For example, Buffy may be the best vampire slayer out there, but answering a simple research question with a computer and an internet connection would probably require a natural 20. Enter Willow, who can do anything with a computer that does not involve smashing it over a vampire’s head.
I think for the “buffy” problem, perhaps the best solution would be to focus the characters’ missions so each one is essential and has something to do. For example, Buffy may be the best vampire slayer out there, but answering a simple research question with a computer and an internet connection would probably require a natural 20. Enter Willow, who can do anything with a computer that does not involve smashing it over a vampire’s head.
That coupled with “White Hats” (the normals in the Buffyverse) getting more drama points (aka hero points, hero dice, action points, etc.) is how the Unisystem Buffy game does it. However, when the climax of the session is on the fight with the vampire, do you really want to leave Willow’s player out stacking up dice or doodling on the margins of her character sheet? Therein lies the problem, one which I’m working on with an altogether different project for Ocean’s 11 / The Sting-esque heist games.
Yeah...thats sorta the problem that earlier versions of Shadowrun had. While the decker was decking, the rigger was rigging or the mage was astrally projecting, everyone else was stuck twiddling their thumbs.
Yeah...thats sorta the problem that earlier versions of Shadowrun had. While the decker was decking, the rigger was rigging or the mage was astrally projecting, everyone else was stuck twiddling their thumbs.
Yep. It’s a situation I’ve been in, and would like to avoid hard-wiring into games if at all possible. Troupe-based play might actually be the solution, so that while every character might not be able to do something, you’d still be able to include every player in most every encounter.
We had the similar problem in Spycraft with our Snooper super computer specialist that couldnt handle any gun at all, but for most of our field mission we usualy use her for giving bonus to other members by locating and keeping track of the ennemies while me(soldier/trigger man) and the others where moving on the field… but still during the climax combat with our main supervillain she was quite useless and bored…
Modern/futuristic era game usualy come with this kinda of problem because you need those support character but when the actual fight come in they are quite useless, and in all teh gathering info phase the combat character feel quite useless. But i guess there isnt much other way to handle thing.
Troupe-based play means that every character brings more than one character to the table. Ars Magica has done this for awhile.
darklink - 21 August 2008 11:43 AM
We had the similar problem in Spycraft with our Snooper super computer specialist that couldnt handle any gun at all, but for most of our field mission we usualy use her for giving bonus to other members by locating and keeping track of the ennemies while me(soldier/trigger man) and the others where moving on the field… but still during the climax combat with our main supervillain she was quite useless and bored…
Modern/futuristic era game usualy come with this kinda of problem because you need those support character but when the actual fight come in they are quite useless, and in all teh gathering info phase the combat character feel quite useless. But i guess there isnt much other way to handle thing.
While players can still do this in d20 Advanced and specialize themselves for non-combat roles, the game is designed so that characters are encouraged to specialize in their combat as well as their non-combat niche. Even a dedicated combat specialist is unlikely to completely run away power-wise in combat over someone who is more versatile in non-combat situations.
I think for the “buffy” problem, perhaps the best solution would be to focus the characters’ missions so each one is essential and has something to do. For example, Buffy may be the best vampire slayer out there, but answering a simple research question with a computer and an internet connection would probably require a natural 20. Enter Willow, who can do anything with a computer that does not involve smashing it over a vampire’s head.
That coupled with “White Hats” (the normals in the Buffyverse) getting more drama points (aka hero points, hero dice, action points, etc.) is how the Unisystem Buffy game does it. However, when the climax of the session is on the fight with the vampire, do you really want to leave Willow’s player out stacking up dice or doodling on the margins of her character sheet? Therein lies the problem, one which I’m working on with an altogether different project for Ocean’s 11 / The Sting-esque heist games.
That might be a problem with the storyline. In a different kind of story, things could be different—maybe Willow has to hack into NORAD to keep the demons from taking over the nation’s nuclear arsenal, while Buffy has to keep the demons from turning Willow into a shiskebab. But whether you can do that again and again…
When 3E had just come out, there was an article in a magazine that said “Kill Lara Croft”, by which they meant that if you want to run a game based on a story with a single hero (or heroine), you have to essentially get rid of the single hero/heroine and replace him/her with a gang the size of your player group. So if I were running a Buffyverse game, for example, I’d probably either have a set of slayers (okay, a variant of the Buffyverse) or have Buffy as an NPC while the PCs all have to do their things to try to get their jobs done.
A correllay of the latter option would be that the game would not focus on the slayer vs the vampires but on whatever it is the players do.
But the best solution might be to take a cue from 4th Edition and define roles for different players. For example, in a Supers game you could have a Striker type that strikes foes down while there is a Controller type that controls the battlefield and the Defender defends spaces that need defending and the Leader supports the party.
But D20 would not have to be limited to this collection of roles: a Spies game might have the Assassin Bureau that fights while the Confiscation Bureau hacks into computers, opens saves, and disarms bombs, while the Investigation Bureau looks for clues. They can all work simultaneously with the Assassins trying to keep the enemies from stopping the Confiscator while the Investigator looks for ways to turn the tide of battle.
Or you can take a cue from a Vikings role playing game I saw once, where everybody is a warrior and just differs in specific tactics (greatsword vs two weapon fighting, etc).
Ideally, whatever the primary focus of the game is (usually combat), you need to design it so that everyone can contribute to that primary focus. Character balance means:
All characters of a similar level/point value will be able to contribute to a similar degree in overcoming the challenges which the group faces, even if they are contributing in different ways. And the more focus a particular method of challenge resolution has during gameplay, the better balanced characters should be for that particular method of challenge resolution.
Essentially, you want to maximize the amount of time that players are actively engaged in the game. If you’re going to spend a large focus of the game in combat, everyone should be able to contribute to the group winning the fight. It can be directly with damage, or with non-damaging but potentially powerful effects (d20^ has the Inflict (Condition) FX for this, so you can build a lot of effects like poison, nets, etc.), or even just by buffing allies.
This carries through to non-combat situations. d20^ addresses this aspect with broad skills and non-proficiency rules, which taken together allow you to define your character clearly while still being able to contribute in non-combat scenarios. I also included rules for Dramatic Interactions, which turns particularly important non-combat skill challenge into a relatively active event. You might only have one hacker in your group with high ranks in Technology, for instance, but you might need someone skilled at Infiltration to actually get into the room where the mainframe is, a good look-out with high Perception, and a face-man with lots of Persuasion to convince the guard who does stumble in that they’re just the maintenance crew.
Part of it may be designing the encounters. For example, in D&D games I’ve seen, usually all characters at least can contribute to the combat, even if they are not focussed on combat. I thinkthat was the whole purpose behind giving Wizards proficiency in crossbows and spears, which they did not have in 1st Edition.
Of course, the players have to have some responsibility. I’ve seen an 11th level rogue/thief acrobat try to take on an 11th level barbarian in a toe-to-toe fight, with predictable results. And I’ve seen spellcasters be at a loss for things to do when they run out of spells when there are viable options for them.
By the way, I like the idea of giving characters extra hero dice as one way of providing balance. Maybe Willow can’t go toe-to-toe with a demon, but if she can use Drama Dice to drop some MacGuffin on the demon so Buffy can concentrate on something else, that could work.
