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3.5 - Improvised weapon damage
Posted: 30 August 2008 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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This is more or less a follow-up post concerning the item hit points thread as it concerns the same competitor.

Fluff (ignore if you want to):
Our halfling cleric is up against a hellfire golem (Fiend Folio) with DR 15 / adamantine and good. He managed to call a duplicate with a mirror of opposition. While the real golem used flame strikes and fireballs to attack the halfling, the duplicate attacked the other golem - only dealing 1d6 damage to the other and itself with an extraordinary ability (it’s base damage dealt 15 damage max).
In the end the duplicate crumbled to dust while the original golem only had one hp left over.

Now our halfling cleric with a strength of 10 is trying to figure out a way to deal one damage to it. He has divine favor, divine power, righteous might and greater magic weapon (on a scroll - CL 20) at his disposal. But… he lacks a weapon as his quarter staff has been destroyed.

He wants to use the 45 pound heavy mirror of opposition. Here’s the character with his items:
http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/showpost.php?p=295309&postcount=9

What I’d like to know is how much base damage the mirror does, if that base damage increases with righteous might, if the mirror can be used two-handed for 1,5x Str on damage, what the attack penalty for the mirror would be, and, finally, if the mirror can be used at all (I bolded the relevant areas).

Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

Anyone have some experience in handling improvised weapons or has an idea on how to handle this?

[ Edited: 30 August 2008 12:19 PM by Tashalar]
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Posted: 30 August 2008 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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I remember a rule about the monsters being able to bypass DR that was the same type as their own. So, in this case the duplicate would have been able to beat the other golem quite effectively.

I lack access to the SRD at the moment, but I think someone will come up with that rule if it is still so in 3.5e.

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Posted: 30 August 2008 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Actually, that rule only exists in 3e and not 3.5e; the 3.5e rule basically says that unless specifically stated in the monster’s block, natural weapons will not automatically bypass DR of the same type.

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Posted: 30 August 2008 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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What Darken said. The only exception is DR X / magic. In that case the natural weapons of a monster count as magical for the purpose of overcoming DR.

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Posted: 30 August 2008 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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What about the golem, is it immune to magic?

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Posted: 30 August 2008 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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I extend the rule to include special materials as well as magic, I figured creatures with a DR against a special material should be able to hurt each other.
Every seen two wererats go at in with tooth and claw? Doesn’t do very much.

I keep intending to start planing ahead but I keep putting it off.

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Posted: 30 August 2008 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Yeah, I always thought it was an excellent rule, since it allows creatures of the same race/type to fight each other with actual results.

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Posted: 30 August 2008 11:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Yep, the golem is immune to any magic that the cleric can cast. Even that which affects it wouldn’t do much good, ie: wouldn’t get anyone to actually win the round.

Thanks for the replies so far, but… uh… so far this has been a discussion of how DR functions and should function…

Does anyone have some answers to the questions I asked above?

What I’d like to know is how much base damage the mirror of opposition does, if that base damage increases with righteous might, if the mirror can be used two-handed for 1,5x Str on damage, what the attack penalty for the mirror would be, and, finally, if the mirror can be used at all (I bolded the relevant areas).

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Posted: 31 August 2008 06:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Do you have complete warrior? I think there is a table for improvised weapon damage somewhere.

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Posted: 31 August 2008 08:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Ah, there is a table, yes.

Going by the weight, the mirror would be classified as a two-handed weapon for a medium-sized character dealing 2d6 base damage.

Hm… any takers on this and my other questions? smile

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