* First, these things count in base 12. There are small marks on the 6’s and large marks on the 12’s. Further 144 is base 12’s ‘100’ which is why the dial goes from 0 to 144 (145 settings).
* As such, these things probably have 6 fingers / digits on each hand and have two hands. As for what ‘65’ means - don’t know. It’s near the center of the settings (73 would be exactly midway).
As far as the switches, top row - 7 switches, then 3 switches.
bottom row - 7 switches, then 3 switches.
From the pattern, I would guess these would be Longitude / Latitude. With the left most 7 digits being the degrees from 0 to 359 and the right most being the seconds.
I’m guessing, however, that these are in base 4. 7 digits would be large enough to hold 360 * 60 = 21,600 in base 4.
Wow BP. You’re running overkill on that math.
I think the coordinates for the plane of fire are 20…
because in the OP:
Row One: 1121441231 (1+1+2+1+4+4+1+2+3+1 = 20)
Row Two: 1224411311 (1+2+2+4+4+1+1+3+1+1 = 20)
So we need to discover the other 5 possible combinations, and if the coordinate “20” (or “40") has any relation to the dial setting (which i determined relates to the speed at which the gate rings spin at)
Actually, since the switches are split 7/3, the switches are set at:
Last two switches = 65 and dial set at 65? Coincidence?
-- Hirahito
P.S. - I’m leaning towards Black Plauge’s definition, but I think we’re all over-looking something basic. It seems too much to ask for critters to need to type in the coordinates to a corresponding gate; they would just need the ‘phone number’ for the corresponding gate. Thus, the gate code is most likely some easy to remember (for them) mnemonic for ‘Fire’. Likewise, the codes for water / plus / minus, etc. should be equally easy to figure out once we’ve figured out how they transcribe fire into this code.
Seems right switch is the safety and right button is the trigger. Left switch is emergency brake and the dial controls power input. The power comes from energy containers. Right switch doubles as shut down, but on higher (highest?) settings we need left one to stop. So far so good. But what does LB do? Cut off power?
(Tangent: different gates may require different minimum power to be opened (something along the lines of 25 for air, 40 for fire, 65 for water, etc). Which is probably the reason dial exists.)
And then there was that harmonic when both buttons are pressed. I think we gotta see what happens when both buttons are pressed. Switches up, dial back to 65, open gate to fire again. Now press both buttons. Then right switch down, again both buttons. Let’s see what we get.
On to the dial. I think Hiraho might’ve hit the duodrome on the head with base 12. I think this thing is operated by duodromes, the standard cube shaped modrons with 4 arms. One arm for each switch and button. I think they also have 3 fingers (fits nicely with 12 finger=12 base counting idea), but don’t quote me on that. It also looks like increasing power while machine is running doesn’t produce gates. It must be started with a minimum power level to create a gate I think. Also increasing power after it starts seems to be less hazardous than starting at full power. Or… Start it up at lowest power, then press right button again. See what happens. Then increase power to 65 and press RB to check if gate opens this way. Finally increase to full power and press RB again (this time take cover).
Then the rows. I agree with BP: those symbols very likely represent base 4, which means it’s really top to down 0,1,2,3. Modrons making them down to up is very unlikely, we may ignore that. I’m not sold on the idea that those are coordinates. Elemental planes being 3D (not to mention infinite), we’d need 3 rows of switches for physical coordinates. Longitude/latitude works on a surface, not in space.
More likely, those are codes for whatever mechanism responds to this machine. Maybe modrons constructed a whole lot of refueling stations across the planes for this machine to connect to. The switches determine which station machine will link to. Positive and negative are used to run the machine, but what’s the use for elements? What’s the ultimate purpose of this machine? Even if we figure out how to open gates to elemental planes and fully load all the containers, what’re we gonna do with that?
DM senses tingling. I think a few divinations are in order, just to see if this is an elaborate trap that’ll do nasty things to us when loaded.
Another tangent: I’d really love it if all this turns out to be some sort of doomsday machine that’ll provide the plothook for the rest of the campaign. If the plot allowed this puzzle to be bypassed and world not endangered by killing someone (with no way for PCs to know that beforehand) and the fact was later revealed to the party, so much the better.
At this point I have deduced we will desperately need to access both the positive and negative planes if we are to continue exploration of this object.
I have also deduced that with the Rows set to “15” we aren’t going to be getting anywhere. I return the dial to 65, and without hitting the brakes, so to speak, I will adjust the rows accordingly, beginning with Row 1, Column A, continuing along to Row 1,Column G, then changing Row 2, Column A to Column G, and only then changing the final 6 switches:
_______ABCDEFG HIJ
Row 1: 2341123 113 (16/5) or 21
Row 2: 4441111 122 (16/5) or 21
Dial will be cranked down to 55 if nothing occurs at the 65 mark.
[ Edited: 02 September 2008 04:07 PM by devastator]
CnSvnc: With rows set to orginal settings, with dial at original setting, you flip both switches up. You press both buttons. For completeness’ sake, you press them simultaneously as well as one at a time. You get the same reactions from the buttons, independent of whether you press them simultaneously or separately. The left button always causes a whirring and clicking sound. The right button causes the low harmonic with no change in the rings.
With the same setup as above, but with the right switch down (left switch up), the left button continues to make the whirring and clicking sound. The right button is not unresponsive.
While my players will have to indicate they are investigating the mechanics of the rings, I will give you the information someone standing near the rings might observe, since I’ve been presenting a fairly omniscient viewpoint for y’all:
The left button causes a set of small arms to manipulate small movable objects embedded in the rings.
The left switch causes clamps to attach to the rings. While well-made and quite durable, it looks more like a locking mechanism than a brake.
Nothing mechanical is obvious with the dial, rows of switches, or right switch and button.
Okay, as to turning the dial: you still have not changed any of the original row settings. With the left switch down, the right switch up, and the dial at the lowest mark, you press the right button. The rings start up and the same brief shimmer of light comes and immediately fades. As the power is turned up, the rings speed up. At the 65th mark, the rings are simply spinning without light. Pressing the right button does nothing. Increasing power to maximum causes the loud shreiking, but no light. The right button still does nothing. You flip the right switch, allowing the rings to spin down. Again, a significant amount of the positive and negative energy were consumed.
Now, just a question: why is it clear that the Modron’s would label their four-state switches 0-3 from top to bottom? While that might be the case here, is there something I should have remembered reading that would indicate that they would always put 0 at the top?
Also, my players should know the purpose of the machine by the time they’re trying to refuel it. Although you’ve now given me a reason to add an additional purpose, the obvious purpose is to stabilize the (Switzerland-sized) valley in which it is located. Before this machine, the valley was unstable and highly volcanic. It is now an idyllic land. So, a reloaded machine will keep the valley safe from the storms that have been causing havoc. They can bypass the ring-machine and find other ways to reload the containers (plane shift?). They also have other ways of saving the people besides stabilizing the valley.
Sorry to disappoint.
Devastator: I believe you still have the red spiral going. You return the dial to 65, bringing down the speed, brightness, and energy consumption of the rings. You adjust the rows from left to right, starting with the top row, to your new configuration:
Row 1: 2341123113
Row 2: 4441111122
While adjusting the rows, there is no change whatsoever. You crank the dial down to 55 from 65. The rings slow and the light dims. Just to note, since creating the red spiral, you have yet to get rid of it. All of your adjustments have been made with the spiral continuing.
Now, just a question: why is it clear that the Modron’s would label their four-state switches 0-3 from top to bottom? While that might be the case here, is there something I should have remembered reading that would indicate that they would always put 0 at the top?
I’m too sleepless to think on the puzzle atm, but to answer: All sorts of computerish things start counting/reading/writing/whatever from the top so I reasoned modrons would do so as well.
When I’ve had some sleep, I’ll work on the puzzle.
OK, now we know all we need to about the controls. Time to work on the destination code. If we assume that they’re base4 numbers (0-3), they can be anything up to 16383/63 and we get a total of 1065290272641 (about 1,1 trillion) combinations.
It’s quite obvious at this point that if the numbers really are base4, we simply must find a modron phonebook to get anywhere. Other ways to find the coordinates would be to
1) find some immortal creature that can travel back in time (not even time stop at will helps, machine needs to be operatable), persuade it to try all the combinations and take note of the ones that work and come back in time to tell us (which is probably possible with a right combination of splatbooks)
2) use divinations
So I can safely say that if the rows represent base4 numbers, we’re done. There’s nothing more we can do here (perhaps the players can track down a datasheet in game). Therefore, it must be something about sequences…
I flip the left switch up, hit the left button, flip the left switch down, then hit the right button again.
And, yeah CnSvnc has a point. trillions of combinations is quite extreme.
I think other than actual combinations, I’m relatively close to figuring out the operation of the machine.
Devastator: Okay, I’m going to assume you know how this works. You turn off the power (right switch), flip up the left switch, locking the rings. You hit the left button (whirr, clickety-clackety). The left switch down, right switch up (for power), and hit the right button to start.
You create another red spiral that reacts the same to different power levels.
Keep it up, but try being a little more methodical. As in, don’t jump too far in the row settings. Why not try a few small steps?
CnSvnc: Don’t give up too quickly! I hope that the settings can be guessed at without trying every single combination.
In order to make educated guesses we would need to know something about planar geography/topology in your world.
For instance, is water considered opposed to fire? If so then the water address might some how be “opposite” the fire address.
Earth and air, are they considered opposed?
The same goes for positive and negative energy.
Also, do the planes have a greek-like structure (perpendicular axis) or a chinese-like structure (a single ring). This effects how the different pairs relate to each other.
Or maybe you’ve got a structure that’s more like Ebberon with the different planes in orbits around the material and the coordinates somehow identify the orbits.
What it basically comes down to is this: There isn’t enough information in your posts for us to make guesses about the coordinates. Your players, being familiar with your campaign cosmology, might. We cannot.
CnSvnc: Don’t give up too quickly! I hope that the settings can be guessed at without trying every single combination.
Did I say I gave up? I just wanted some ideas about switch sequences. Now I have more work for you…
Let’s try BP’s idea. As you have modrons, I’ll assume you have standard planescape multiverse. There, water is opposed to fire and adjacent to air and earth (ignoring semi and para planes). Positive is at the top and negative at the bottom. For the moment, let’s try water (which is opposite).
Now 1121441/231 and 1224411/311 opens a gate to fire. I’ll try the opposite angle in a few different ways. I’ll try opening portals with these combinations:
1) Easiest opposite: 1224411/311 and 1121441/231
2) Mirror image of switches: 4331144/244 and 4434114/324
3) Backwards, take one: 1441211/132 and 1144221/113
4) Backwards, take two: 1321441/211 and 1131144/221
5) Additive inverse: 4434113/324 and 4331144/244
All these combinations will be tried on these power settings and machine will be shut down (both switches down) after every try: 1, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 145.
I think CnSvnc has a few more options that should be tried on the dial if none of those work:
1) Dial setting: 56
2) 109
3) 65
4) 45
5) 100
This is due to the earlier theory that the sum of the final three switches on each row of the original settings were “6” and “5” ... or “65”. If that idea holds true, one of my settings should result in a more favourable result.
Yeah, we have a pretty standard Planescape setting. Fire is opposite Water. Earth/Air. Positive/Negative.
Just so we can be completely clear, the bottom controls are as follows (you’ve figured them out enough):
left button - apply new row settings to rings, only when locked
left switch - lock rings
dial - power level
right switch - power to rings
right button - start rings
Now, for your combinations:
1) Easiest opposite: 1224411/311 and 1121441/231
This causes the bright lights that either fade away or expand and dissipate. Settings 1, 25, 45, 50, and 56 all fade, although 50 and especially 56 stays for a few seconds before fading. Settings 75, 100, 109, 125, and 145 all form, expand, and dissipate. 75 stays for a bit before expanding out, and 145 is still very extreme. 65, interestingly enough, forms a stable gate. This leads to an unprotected area on the plane of fire with a magma river flowing through red-hot coals. There is no corresponding ring.
2) Mirror image of switches: 4331144/244 and 4434114/324
This causes a clockwise red spiral, identical to Devastator’s previous red spiral.
3) Backwards, take one: 1441211/132 and 11442211/113 (I’m assuming the second set is actually 1442211/113)
This causes the white light reactions. Settings 1, 25, 45, 50, 56, 65, 75, and 100 all fade. Settings 125 and 145 expand and dissipate. Setting 109 produces a stable gate. This gate leads into the deep ethereal. There is no corresponding ring.
4) Backwards, take two: 1321441/211 and 1131166/221 (I’m assuming the second set is actually 1131144/221)
This causes the white light reactions. Settings 1, 25, 45, 50, 56, 65, and 75 all fade. Settings 109, 125, and 145 expand and dissipate. Setting 100 produces a stable gate. This gate leads into the deep ethereal. There is no corresponding ring.
5) Additive inverse: 4434113/324 and 4331144/244
This causes a red glow, but without any spiral effect. It still simply increases or decreases in brightness like the red spiral.
This is probably a decent time to tell you that we have a deep ethereal, and that the inner planes are associated with the ethereal. I think that the inner planes might have their own ethereal planes too.
Also, while the players will have a problem with running out of energy (as you are likely to do with all of your high-power tests), they can also use cure and inflict spells to recharge the positive and negative energy containers. They’ll also have a time-limit, so they will probably have to be a bit more sparing than y’all are being, but you don’t have those constraints. Just don’t get carried away with something like testing every single dial setting.
What’s new:
There are unprotected endpoints which means stuff is being dumped (or maybe stored and retrieved too but that’d require protection on workers).
White light is important. It shows we’re on the right wavelength. It’s also a threshold indicator, insufficient power fades and excess power dissipates. Closer the threshold, longer the light stays. When we get the power right, a portal opens.
Red glow is a 404 error. Spiral seems to be a sort of extra warning, but I’m not exactly sure what it means.
Overall, we’re making progress.
...
Now that we have 4 working sequences (and no gate to water), we may ignore opposite theory. Anyone see anything in these sequences?
1121441/231 and 1224411/311: to fire, refueling point (power 65)
1224411/311 and 1121441/231: to fire (power 65)
1441211/132 and 1442211/113: to deep ethereal (power 109)
1321441/211 and 1131144/221: to deep ethereal (power 100)
I included power level just for completeness. I’ll be very surprised if power has anything to do with destination. One specific address for every portal modrons have constructed is very neat and tidy. And with 1,1 trillion possible addresses, it’d be illogical to assign same one to more than one then differentiate them with power input. If modrons HAD more portals than combinations (it’s an infinite multiverse out there), there wouldn’t be any red glows.
Random things I see: They all start with 1. All sets have five 1s, two 2s, single 3s and two 4s. They all add up to 20. 4s are always together.
EDIT: For further completeness, here’s the combinations as they look on the machine, in case some pattern can be easier to see this way:
