4th & Dragon : Dungeons and Dragons...and stuff

theshrewedshrew - 05 March 2008 04:22 PM

Call of Cthulhu

Also if you get hit from behind on that dark night. With a little gas in the tank.
Your pinto is gonna explode.

I suppose that could happen if you fumble your Demolitions roll.

But in a Call of Cthulhu game, perhaps being rear-ended while sitting in a Ford Pinto just might be the only way to avoid insanity.

eh, just giving my shout out to Lee Iacocca.
with explosions.

As for GURPS, you should add that its controls are about as simple as those of a space shuttle.

And TWERPS is a tricycle. It may not actually succeed in crossing every terrain, but you can try, and by golly ANYONE can just hop on and ride it.

Only to add ---

Star Frontiers: a Honda CB750 - simple, efficient, quick and addicting. 

SF Knight Hawks expansion: CB750 Nighthawk - same as above, updated, and ironically shares the same name and debuted the same year. 

CB750

CB750 Nighthawk

{EDIT} Okay, those were supposed to be links...I’m not the most PC proficient person here LOL

I’m still trying to figure out what kind of car 4th Edition D&D is.

A Prius?

4e: A Toyota Matrix XR.  It looks pretty and has a lot of cool gadgets that come standard.  But in the end it is still an over simplified econo car that has been polished up to look pretty.

I think of it more like a standard shift 1/2 ton pickup.  Basic but practical, powerful at low speeds with lots of torque but simple, easily added onto with room for plenty of stuff to fill it.  And overall it’s simple enough that Mustang lovers will gripe that it can’t get to 60 in less than 4 seconds.

My Prius suggestion was for the new fad factor and great gas mileage, so that you get a decent drive out of every dollar spent (on gas).

Cameron - 31 July 2008 08:27 AM

I think of it more like a standard shift 1/2 ton pickup.  Basic but practical, powerful at low speeds with lots of torque but simple, easily added onto with room for plenty of stuff to fill it.  And overall it’s simple enough that Mustang lovers will gripe that it can’t get to 60 in less than 4 seconds.

I think I like this analogy better.

Actually...I think I like Cam’s more too.

That’s good because when I reread it, I saw that some 3E lovers might take offense, although that was certainly not intended.  I happen to like Mustangs a lot and pickups.  In my perfect world, I’d own both.  Right now, IRL I have a Civic hybrid.  And in the game world, I am in my perfect world…

And I like Lune’s answer.

When it comes to run for the money (measured perhaps in number of games enjoyed per dollar spent on books, adjusted for inflation), I doubt 4th Edition will be 3rd Edition Core.  And a lot of the stuff added in the 4th Edition Player’s Handbook seems to me an emphasis on “cool” rather than “basic”, such as replacing gnomes with tieflings, and replacing (dare I mention it?) Druids with Warlords.

But if Cameron’s answer has more support, I’ll put his answer on my list.

Utgardloki - 31 July 2008 09:42 AM

And I like Lune’s answer.

When it comes to run for the money (measured perhaps in number of games enjoyed per dollar spent on books, adjusted for inflation), I doubt 4th Edition will be 3rd Edition Core.  And a lot of the stuff added in the 4th Edition Player’s Handbook seems to me an emphasis on “cool” rather than “basic”, such as replacing gnomes with tieflings, and replacing (dare I mention it?) Druids with Warlords.

I guess.  Druids are certainly more complex than warlords, name aside.  And gnomes versus tieflings isn’t the cool factor.  It’s the “For what purpose is there another short race?  What niche do they fit by themselves?” that’s the problem.  You’ve also named two things that seem cool and have missed out on all the simplification.  The argument is a simulationist (3E) versus a game that doesn’t try to simulate everything (4E).  Simulationist is definitely more complicated than simple.  Take GURPS versus 1E D&D.

But if Cameron’s answer has more support, I’ll put his answer on my list.

Don’t let that be your reason.  If you really think that 4E is nothing but flash on an econo-car, it’s your list.  I just think you are missing the boat completely.  I think it’s more like the F150 that lacks the speed and manueverability of the mustang but makes up for it with how much it can haul around, how easy it is to drive, and how powerful the engine is for hauling loads.

Meh, I think that 3e is far more versatile than 4e.  I think it will be that way even after other supliments come out if for no other reason than multiclassing.  So if versatility of an F150 is an arguement for versatility I would be forced to disagree. 

Personally, I think my next vehicle is going to be a Subaru Baja, so I’m all about the versatility. (I’d pin Pathfinder as the Baja and 3.x as the Legacy)

I didn’t mention versatility.  I don’t think it’s more versatile and I agree completely with your assessment on the multi-classing.  That’s what I meant about the lack of maneuverability of an F150.  But it will be able to tote a who s’load of options in the bed, options that felt crammed in 3E or bolted on superficially.  Some options that seemed like nitrous and overpowered the car, and some that felt like gigantic lead bricks filling up a trunk.  I think 4E will be able to carry similar options power creeps and sags, but do so more efficiently without breaking characters too good or too bad.

Make sense?

BTW, as much as it looks like I’m a 4E fanboy, I’m still running 3E and I still like that game a lot.  I just like some of the options being stripped.  (Multiclassing is not one of them, and despite my earlier post about gnomes, I like gnomes.)