4th & Dragon : Dungeons and Dragons...and stuff

OK I’m going to be starting up my f2f groups Shackled City game in a couple of weeks after a 6 month hiatus but I’m going to need a new character. Currently the group is 7th level and has a Rogue/Ranger archer, a Divine Bard and a Cleric of Pelor so I’m going to go with a melee’er and a arcanist. Something like the following build;

The only allowed sources are PHB2, Completes -psionic, mage and champion, Spell Compendium, and core so yeah.

Anyway, the build:

Fighter 2/Evoker 5/Spellsword 4/Eldritch Knight X

Anyone have any suggestions feat wise or spell wise that I should look into? Or any better spell-warrior builds?

Just to be clear, it looks like you’ve listed “all the Completes minus psionic, mage, and champion.” If this is incorrect, please say so.

This type of build will usually be a primarily melee combatant, using spells to become better at that role. For that reason, Evocation should be one of your last choices for a school to specialize in. For this type of character I wouldn’t specialize in any school of magic at all. I understand that you’ve recognized that your party is lacking in both primary arcane magic and melee damage, but one character shouldn’t be expected to fill both of those roles and be good at both. My advice would be to choose one of those two roles to focus on, and taking the other as a secondary role.

In either case, your level build needs some serious work. You’re not observing the optimal ‘jumping off’ levels of your classes. Leading into Spellsword you should have either Fighter 1/ Wizard 6, or Fighter 2/ Wizard 4. The 5th Wizard level grants no BAB or base save bonuses, so stopping at that level is not a good choice for a build which doesn’t want to lose out on BAB or spellcasting. Spellsword itself should be taken for one, three, or five levels. You don’t want to lose out on spellcasting if it can be avoided, and Channel Spell probably isn’t worth waiting another level for your next higher level of spells, or if it is worth taking then you need to make sure you’re not losing out on much spellcasting besides that. Personally, I haven’t seen a build I like yet that uses more than three Spellsword levels, the loss of spellcasting just isn’t worth it.

If you’re going to be focusing on melee, you need to be sure your BAB and spellcasting ability are both as high as possible, and your spells are going to be used to enhance your melee capabilities. Buffing spells along with the feat Arcane Strike (CW) make this kind of character the most capable melee damage dealer in the game. Starting at 7th level, I’d suggest going something like Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ EK, in which case you could start out with a magical Mithril Shirt without having to worry about arcane spell failure. Wield a two-handed weapon with reach and wear armor spikes, take Power Attack, Cleave, Practiced Spellcaster, Combat Reflexes, and Extend Spell, and gain Leap Attack at EK1 and Arcane Strike at level 9. Another good feat to include early on would be Craft Magic Arms and Armor, in which case you’d be able to start out with some of your most expensive equipment at half price, and you could upgrade what equipment you have however you want to. Don’t worry about casting spells offensively, focus on your physical ability scores and only make your Int high enough to cast your higher-level spells later on.

For a primary spellcaster build, maybe focus on summoning to add melee combatants to the fight, especially considering the PHB2’s Immediate Magic variant for a specialist Conjurer. Conjuration is the most versatile of all the schools, and with the Spell Compendium it gets a fair share of blasting spells as well. Another idea would be to take Improved Familiar and buff it up for melee combat at the start of a fight before switching to offensive spells. In either case you wouldn’t need to worry about your own character’s melee capabilities, so you’d be free to focus on being a better spellcaster.

That’s correct about the completes.

I think I’ll go the road of the primary melee combatant, since we’ve been dungeon delving mostly throughout the campaign and melee has been a real problem for us. So I’ll go with the Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ EK build you suggested. Very nice, thank you Biff!

Just curious, why would I want to worry about leap attack?

Why Leap Attack? Imagine casting a spell that renders your melee attacks as melee *touch* attacks. Wouldn’t you want to Power Attack with it? And if you do, wouldn’t you want to *double* your Power Attack damage? 

Aside from Conjuration, I think the school of Transmutation is also a likely focus for martial-heavy spellcasters (gish). It holds most of the buffs, if I’m not mistaken (IINM).

With a Gish you probably don’t want to specialize, or if you do, take Necromancy and Enchantment as prohibited schools. I’d suggested specializing in Conjuration for a primary spellcaster build, but GW is correct in that Transmutation would be the best school of specialization for a Gish build.

Later on in your career, Persistent Spell will be amazing. Spells like Shield, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, and Displacement could be made to last 24 hours. Like all builds of this type, you probably won’t want that feat until the considerably later levels. Taking it at 15th level you’d only be able to use it on 0-level spells until you hit 16th level, at which time you’d be able to make 1st level spells Persistent. Once you max out EK at 17th level you may as well take more Wizard levels, so at 18th level you’ll have your Wizard 5 bonus feat, at which time you’d be able to make 2nd level spells Persistent plus you’d still get your normal feat at 18. Since that will be your 5th Wizard level, you may as well take the 6th for the BAB and base save bonuses and spellcasting, which would be ECL 19 with 16th level spellcasting. You could be sure to meet the prerequisites for Archmage by then to take a single level of that for Arcane Reach, which makes touch-range spells Persistable, and you’ll have a +16 BAB and 9th level spells at level 20. If the game goes into the epic levels you can take more Spellsword levels until you get Multiple Channel Spell, then maybe max out Archmage if the game goes on for that long.

Awesome, any other tips?

There’s a few, such as using Lesser Rods of Extend with Swift spells like Wraithstrike, so that they’ll last twice as long so you don’t have to cast it as often. Buffs like Superior Resistance, Mind Blank, and Energy Immunity are also good to have active. Arcane casters sort of get the short end on Energy Immunity, as it’s a 7th level spell compared to being a 6th level Divine spell. A Divine caster can get a standard Rod of Extend and a 6th level Pearl of Power, and every day alternate between casting Energy Immunity three times and Energy Immunity twice along with Superior Resistance. For the cost of those items and two 6th level spell slots/day a character can be constantly immune to all five energy types plus get a Resistance bonus on all saves much higher than any nonepic item would grant. This doesn’t work for an Arcane caster though, as Energy Immunity is just one level too high.

A Lesser Rod of Quicken is also great to have. You can cast a buff or offensive spell, then cast a (extended) Wraithstrike, and on the next round charge in with Power Attack and Leap Attack. At the end of your charge, cast a (Rod of) Quickened Whirling Blade, and you’ll get to make an attack against all creatures in a line, including the one you just charged, still gaining the benefits of Wraithstrike and still adding all of your Power Attack and Leap Attack bonus damage.

Wraithstrike is not a valid spell for the persistent spell metamagic feat IIRC, since it’s duration is only 1 round.

Linklegacy77 -

Wraithstrike is not a valid spell for the persistent spell metamagic feat IIRC, since it’s duration is only 1 round.

Unless there’s an errata on Persistent Spell (CArc), I’d say wraithstrike (Spell Compendium) works just fine with it. A duration of 1 round is not instantaneous, and the spell does not discharge. If you can Extend it, it should work just as well if you Persist it.

Thus the IIRC, apparently I did not recall correctly.

Thus the IIRC, apparently I did not recall correctly.

Just for clarification. And yes, YDNRC (You Did Not Recall Correctly), but it doesn’t really matter. It’s always good to have these rules clarifications here and there just so everyone gets updated every now and then. Even I sometimes get some news outta these spontaneous discussions.

I, on the other hand, always know everything. Ask Link or BP. 

Yeah.

Right.

Link’s original proposition that wraithstrike is incompatible with Persistant Spell may not be right, but using the two together is pointless.  Wraithstrike was revised to have the exact same duration as true strike, i.e. it only functions on your next single attack roll, and only if that attack roll is made before the end of the next round.  Persisting the spell will make it so that you have a full day to make that next single attack roll, but it is still only going to affect a single attack roll.  Not worth the bump in level if you ask me.

Plus, many DMs could rule that true strike‘s duration (and by extension wraithstrike’s) counts as one with a discharge condition (even though it doesn’t say so explicitly), thus making it inelligable for use with Persistant Spell.