4th & Dragon : Dungeons and Dragons...and stuff

Jim Goings - 07 May 2008 03:54 PM

And for record, Lune - I’m not a baby that expects to get my way at the game table.  This is purely my beef with having hours of work and effort put into something wasted by a single die roll.  I’d rather go down fighting that just poof, you’re dead.  Roll again.

Jim, you saw what happen to Baron Steffan. I did not have to re-roll him. It is VERY hard to ‘lose’ a character. The problem you have is yours and not the system’s. Through a good set-up and expense of coin, The Baron was back into play, albeit one level lower, at the end of the encounter and after I went out to smoke a cigarette.

Contingency/teleport/priest that owed me a favor (because I paid him to owe me a favor)/teleport back. Cost some coin, but works like a charm every time. Coulda’ been cheaper if you consider The Baron’s diplomacy and intimidate are in the high 20s - but naw, just ponied up the coin.

Hello to all the familiar names from 3rd ed.org.

I had a blast with my dragon hunter campaign. There were 2 fatalities through 10 levels (10th to 20th); and Jackelope King is right, death is merely a set-back at that level. However, if one simply multi-classed, and took feats like Iron Will, bad saves are no longer so much of an issue. I think players get too carried away with their over-specialized munchkin builds, and leave weaknesses exposed. That’s all part of the chess match that goes on between DM and players.

I suspect there is no “perfect” system that would eliminate the issues you raise, Jim. It comes down to the DM knowing his players’ builds and moderating his encounters accordingly.

There’s tons of strategies a DM can use to create a hair-raising encounter. The simplest way is the “wave” method. Say your players’ 12th level PCs encounter 6 stone giants. They dispatch them with minimal to moderate damage. Simply send in a 2nd wave of 3 or 4 more giants. I did this recently with 8th level characters vs. hill giants, and it produced a classic fight that truly hung in the balance until the monk rolled 2 crits and a 3rd hit in 1 round to tip the scales in the party’s favor.

An easy way to handle DM perep time is to make monster sheets set up similar to the entries in the MMs.  hang on to them, and then pull them out at a laer date, tweak a feat here, a skill there, and you have an encounter with maybe 5 minutes prep time.

Having picked up Keep on the shadowfell today and reading the rules, I think 4e may not be the high-level solution you’re looking for.

FeldsparHewerson - 21 May 2008 02:29 AM

Hello to all the familiar names from 3rd ed.org.

Welcome back. Enjoy your stay.

Having picked up Keep on the shadowfell today and reading the rules, I think 4e may not be the high-level solution you’re looking for.

What gave you that impression from a module that spans only the first three levels of play?

Hello again Talae and thank you.

I don’t really know for sure how 4e translates into high levels, but unless new powers are granted very very slowly, 4e PCs will be extremely powerful (read broken). The HP inflation (while damage stays essentially the same) means PCs will be hard to drop, and almost impossible to kill at high levels (especially when you factor in healing surges, which I already detest).

Metagame-wise, logic says WotC is going to publish a 4.5 version in about a year or 2, and that means problems will need to surface at the higher levels. They’ll make sure everyone has fun at the lower levels, but problems will arise at higher levels (after about a year of playing) that will need to be addressed with a revision.

I don’t really know for sure how 4e translates into high levels, but unless new powers are granted very very slowly, 4e PCs will be extremely powerful (read broken).

We already know the power progression. Characters gain new attack powers at every odd level, but only have as many as 4 encounter and 4 daily attack powers.

The HP inflation (while damage stays essentially the same) means PCs will be hard to drop, and almost impossible to kill at high levels (especially when you factor in healing surges, which I already detest).

Higher level powers will deal more damage so damage should scale nicely with HP.

Metagame-wise, logic says WotC is going to publish a 4.5 version in about a year or 2, and that means problems will need to surface at the higher levels. They’ll make sure everyone has fun at the lower levels, but problems will arise at higher levels (after about a year of playing) that will need to be addressed with a revision.

That’s a rather pessimistic view.  3e came out in 2000.  3.5 came out in 2003.  4e is coming out this year.  Past history would seem to indicate 3 to 4 years before any substantial modification to the core of the system.

As far as updates go, I doubt that we will see a 4.5e due to a few things. First off, it would not be received well. Second, they already have plans for how to change/modify rules. There is DDI (which could be updated with erratas/etc but isn’t going to reach everyone) and there is the use of the PHB2/DMG2/MM2. They plan on releasing a new core set each year. That is a lot of options for altering/clarifying/etc. rules.

Don’t get me wrong though, there will be a 5th Edition (even if it’s called something like D&D Saga Edition).

Or the ever bandied “Dungeons of Warcraft”.