Now, Rothe, you say you don’t need feats to define fighting style. Explain this, please. If feats do not define a character’s combat style, what does? I seem to have overlooked something, a not inconceivable occurance.
In 4E your powers define your combat style.
On the other hand, this also brings up a question. How important are skills to characters. What I strongly dislike is that the classes have a small list of skills that they appear to simply have full training in for their level and can gain no others without taking feats. The way my group plays, skills define the character as much, if not more, than feats, so this change seems to be overly restrictive in character developement.
Again, it’s powers that are the most important character differentiation. But skills are still very important.
In agreement with Cameron, I’d like to add that in 3.x your feats often defined your attacks. And since in 4e your choice of powers define the way you attack and that you get more feats now; you can easily afford to use up feats to further specialize in skills training such as a rogue and thievery.
Also, on skills, I liked how they put some of the skills together.
ex. listen + spot + search = perception.
Before I had to wait and see if my players got a clue and decided to look for things, or I’d just tell them to make a check. But passive perception is so useful for seamless gameplay in which the players could be walking through a forested area and noticing some enemies (passive perception vs. steath) hiding for an ambush. This I enjoy much more as opposed to players being blind, deaf, and dumb until they declare they are looking out for something, or I have tell them all to make a roll which slows down the game in the long run.
I’d say that feats in 4e are for fine-tuning your character. You can use them on whatever aspect you see is most important to the character. The effect of the feats is much less than it was in 3.5e, but you get more feats in total. Now, if you use a feat on gaining a skill, you are not really missing out a lot in combat abilities, or vice versa.
Attack powers are what define the main abilities of the characters in combat. Utility powers are mostly for combat too.
Skills are for out of combat uses.
Feats are to modify either aspect as you wish. I’d say that feats don’t have too much effect on combat prowess though.
They add nifty details or give a small bonus.
For example Power attack is no longer so important to take for a str based fighter. You can take it, but most of the time it is better not to use it - it has some specialised uses like breaking doors or using coup de grace etc. but in real combat the penalty to hit is too much.
Mostly feats just modify or boost the use of powers or skills. Only a few feats do anything on their own.
Also you gain feat faster and more often then in 3.x. Its almost every 2 levels. Compare to once every 3 level, you gain quicker and you can actualy get whatever feat you want, for the few characters i made(or help to create) i took quite a few skill training feat, it really help to flesh out characters.
But still a holy avanger at lev 10, its quite powerful, whatever edition you are in.
Feats are to modify either aspect as you wish. I’d say that feats don’t have too much effect on combat prowess though.
They add nifty details or give a small bonus.
For example Power attack is no longer so important to take for a str based fighter. You can take it, but most of the time it is better not to use it - it has some specialised uses like breaking doors or using coup de grace etc. but in real combat the penalty to hit is too much.
Mostly feats just modify or boost the use of powers or skills. Only a few feats do anything on their own.
This, but a few small points:
Skills have a lot more relevant combat use now. There’s been at least one Athletics check rolled per session in combat, usually closer to 3. You can use Intimidate to get bloodied foes to surrender. I can’t wait to do this with a gnome bard.
Power Attack is so bad now. Yeah it does more damage at epic tier, but your chance to hit at epic tier is proportionately lower that the +damage is basically mitigated. Not that that has anything to do with your point, I just had to say it. I hate power attack. The feat doesn’t really have much use anymore with the wide standardization of creature defenses.
The pretext that writing a paragraph and making a character who exhibits the traits of said paragraph can be done in any RPG ever conceived.
It was a pointless challenge because completing it didn’t prove anything, other than people will do what you ask of them.
Yes, yes and oh my god yes! This is exactly why fighting (or challenging) over versions or game systems in general is pointless. Not to mention that it is all just personal preference anyhow. A system affects how you do things (and in combat, what things you can do), not how you roleplay or the type of character you play - you do that. If you’re imagination ends with what is in a book, it never really got started.
Edit - if you want to know if you can actually roleplay a character, try it without using a system at all. Sure it won’t be fair as the DM tried to resolve things based on his or her gut but that isn’t the point. Try it, it is a sobering experience.
When I first read this thread, I thought he is going to ask us to try to recreate a Barbarian and a Druid. That in my mind would have been a friendly competetion. As no int has put it, it is very easy to say this is my character concept and here are the abilities from the system that fit it.
Though this thread has developed into a better discussion of feats of 4e vs feats of 3.xe, the original point was basically a silly problem. In keeping with the feat topic, I find that I was a little disheartened on first look at the feats. They seemed weak in comparison and rather lacking to the multitude of the 3.x experience. I rather enjoy the 4e approach to feats now. Since powers have come and taken over what your character can really do, the feats can be used to flesh out the character more at less expense. More feats gives more choices, but I feel they gave more feats to help with the new multiclass rules.
The feats seem more balanced and really help to flesh your character out. My buddy made two half-elf warlocs, one infernal the other fey. He really likes making his fey pact warloc a mover of people and based on hit and run tatics himself. Feats like the improved misty step are nice to have to help flesh it out. His infernal pact loc is all about acting first and just blasting away. He chose allmost all damage dealing spells and spells where he gained health from them. He also chose improved initiative to get a better chance of acting first.
With more books I hope they stay in line with the core feats power levels instead of the usual mtg power creep we experienced in 3.5.
Edit - if you want to know if you can actually roleplay a character, try it without using a system at all. Sure it won’t be fair as the DM tried to resolve things based on his or her gut but that isn’t the point. Try it, it is a sobering experience.
Game system shouldnt be somethign that prevent you to roleplay anything you want. I played in so many different game system from the book You are the Hero(only know the french name of the books that had a system wich are L’Oeil Noir and Terre de Légende), D&D, AD&D, D&D 3.x, Rift, White Wolf, Shadow Run and many mores. New system, new rules, new way to play out stuff, but never a mean to limit the rolepolayign abilities, though most game prevent you to be a god right at teh starts
In any system you can create almost whatever you want, with your DM abrobation and your imagination limit. If i want to create an angelic kind of character there is always some way to do it.
Your Friendly challenge, is fine if oyu want some help to convert your character, but if its just a rant about how oyu could roleplay those character in the new system, read more about the rules and understand them and you will be able to make things work.
I could also give you a nice friendly challenge but i will make my own post
