4th & Dragon : Dungeons and Dragons...and stuff

EDIT - Updating to include the latest download in the first post.

I’ve been brainstorming the same kind of thing, and here are a few of the ideas I’ve had:

-Basic attacks don’t belong on the character card.  Character cards are by their nature incomplete and meant to be accompanied by Power cards.  As such, basic attacks should be written up as at-will power cards.

-Some fields can (and should) be auto calculating.  Ability modifiers, for instance, can be calculated from the ability score themselves and should be to minimize the chance of typos.

-The constrained amount of room on a card means that they should be as minimalistic as possible.  Untrained skills which don’t have a special bonus don’t need to show up.  Feats which simply provide a static bonus don’t need to be specified once the bonuses are calculated in.  Anything represented by another card (power, item, racial ability, etc.) doesn’t need to show up on the character card.  However, this does create potential muck-ups when it comes time to level up a character and the player wants to use retraining rules, so maybe it’s not a good idea.

As for comments on the style, I don’t really care for the basic look of the cards you’ve posted.  The layout gives no good visual cues as to what information is where.  I much prefer something that looks more like the most recent RPG sides to D&D Minis cards.  To see what that looks like, download the file behind this link. The color scheme could use some work (in my opinion) and the cards have some information on them that I wouldn’t put on a character card, but you can get an idea of what’s been floating around in my head.

I’m working on the auto-calculating code for the ability modifiers.  I think I have it close to working.

Ultimately the code blocks I have should be portable (I’m still working on them) in the game file.  The only differences would be the style file and locations.  Those are the easy parts.

I cut one of the cards out to look at here.  I like this layout, but I have two problems with it (besides color scheme, which is awful).  Do you think the sideways version works?  And can MSE support a landscape card format?

One thing I actually like about the DDM format is the little picture.  That should be pretty easy to do.  All I need are the PNGs of the minis that you have (if you still have them - can you post them somewhere like mediafire to download?) and then you’d have a vast array of pictures, and it makes the monster cards even easier.

As a monster card I think it is ok, the artwork is nice but I think that would be really good for the back of the card… so you could show it to players without having to mask the card’s info. As a player tool, it seems pretty limited…

You’ll see.  With power cards and a character card, D&D will be more portable than ever.

I answered my own question about the landscape.  It will support them.

Cameron’s deck of Elminster get it now while its hot.  Only 10 minutes of download time and 5 minutes of craft cut outs.

Joking aside, I love this idea.  I know I would love to have a character deck or since i dm alot an npc deck.

I think the landscape works best for the character cards due to the amount of text found on them.

Okay here’s a new mockup.  This is just what I threw together in GIMP over the last hour.

I like that layout much better. I think that the bloodied total would still be nice to have and the Pic on the back wouldn’t be a bad idea (but I like it on the front, so maybe both places?). The second line of text seems a half point or so too large for the space.

Those are all minor gripes...my NPCs/Monsters will be using this format. I don’t know about my players though, as they tend to be picky about character sheets.

I’m trying to figure out how to do bloodied now.  I’ve removed the boxes around the text on the top which makes the card look cleaner.

For the back, I think maybe just a blank card with a spot for a character image.  I’m not sold on the image on the front, but I also like the standard card back I made for the power cards.

Now, what text needs to go in that huge block of open space?  I’ve been playing with that for the last hour and have deleted everything I put there.

Init, Spd, Skills(if you are going to put class and racial and base powers on seperate cards), Possibly feats(unless carded also), Senses.

Really I don’t have much as I mull them all over in my head.  If you are putting Class features as a seperate power card or a card of just class features, then it really limits what to put in there.  SAme as if you put basic attacks and racial powers on cards.  This is usually the most crunchie stuff.  Skills would be a good shot and other things that aren’t powered by a power such as descriptions and diety stuff.

I do think that in the bottom box it should be the Modifier for the stat in the big box and the stat score in the little box.  This is mainly because you usually use the modifier more than the score itself.

FrostNumenor - 02 July 2008 06:17 PM

Init, Spd, Skills(if you are going to put class and racial and base powers on seperate cards), Possibly feats(unless carded also), Senses.

Really I don’t have much as I mull them all over in my head.  If you are putting Class features as a seperate power card or a card of just class features, then it really limits what to put in there.  SAme as if you put basic attacks and racial powers on cards.  This is usually the most crunchie stuff.  Skills would be a good shot and other things that aren’t powered by a power such as descriptions and diety stuff.

This was what I was thinking too.  That’s why it’s hard to figure out what to put.

I do think that in the bottom box it should be the Modifier for the stat in the big box and the stat score in the little box.  This is mainly because you usually use the modifier more than the score itself.

Good point!

That card is going to get pretty cramped quickly.

Suggestions for the second one (with the dragonborn):
1) Get rid of the image (and thus the artist). It’s taking up a lot of space.
2) Get rid of the XP box.
3) Move the stats all down to be flush with the bottom edge.

Honestly, I think the character sheet in card format would work best spread out over a few cards. Have one for racial abilities, class abilities, and feats; another for skills; and one for abilities, defenses, senses, initiative, etc.

Well I think we are putting the powers for sure in the newly created power cards that Cameron provided.  I am pretty sure I would probably put any power like race or class powers for sure as power card.  Now I would probably put a second card for class features/race features. 

On the front I am thinking of putting skills probably keeping it to trained skills only.  I think a two card sheet, with powers on thier own power cards to complete the deck would be something I would like to have.  Debating on what is on the main card vs the secondary card is having me debate greatly.

Basically i think that important info or regularly checked info should be on Character card 1 and then misc info or less used info on Card 2.  Then powers to finish out the deck set. 

The format I am thinking is in that block of open space is something like:(Not sure where to put healing surge value)

Init Spd Perception

Skills:(list them as desired anywhere from trained only or all(i would probably put all as you would have some room depending on font)) SkillName: Modifier

Languages

Card Two you could put info like Warloc’s Curse, Elf Wild Step, Group Awareness.

Or instead of card two you could just make a batch of cards. what i mean is you have card 1 with the info i put above and your current format, then have cards that you make 1 for race and 1 for class.  Since every race would have same racial features.  So you could put Wild step, group awareness, Fey Origin, Elven Weapons Proficiency all on one card that is named the Elf Card.(vision type could go here or card 1).  If you use the two card set up vision would go on the second card.  Then you do the same thing for a fighter class card.  Leave a spot for them to write in the weapon group they favor. 

So basically I think having a Stat Card which contains all the info presented so far + Init, spd, Skills(trained or all depending on room and neatness), Languages, healing surge value.  Then have a Race Feature Card and a Class Feature card which could be a standard card.  This would allow us to add a Paragon Path Card later on.

The problem I run into is what to do with Feats.  Do we squeeze them and use only trained skills(not bad idea), or do we make a feat card(which is harder to do and now you have three to 4 cards for your character(not a huge deal imo)?  If you include it on the main card do you just have its name or a description invovled?  I know that I have a fairly good memory bank to hold things in, but my wife does not. So for me just having the name would be more than sufficent, but for my wife it would be lacking as she would have to have a book to look it up.

What to do what to do.

Aranan - 02 July 2008 07:47 PM

That card is going to get pretty cramped quickly.

Suggestions for the second one (with the dragonborn):
1) Get rid of the image (and thus the artist). It’s taking up a lot of space.

That’s what I’ve been thinking.

2) Get rid of the XP box.

I think this becomes a necessity when we move into monster cards.  I kind of want a standard format for all creatures, and I think the XP box is something that is somewhat universal.  Of course, the meaning between PC and monster is different, but they both need it.

3) Move the stats all down to be flush with the bottom edge.

Honestly, I think the character sheet in card format would work best spread out over a few cards. Have one for racial abilities, class abilities, and feats; another for skills; and one for abilities, defenses, senses, initiative, etc.

Racial powers are already in their own cards (Other Powers), and class features are in the sets with the class powers already.

Racial abilities are something that might need their own cards, unless it’s just the names of the abilities (Encumbered Speed, Bloodhunt, Bold, etc).

I do think feats might need their own cards.  Trained only skills should fit on this card.

Or instead of card two you could just make a batch of cards. what i mean is you have card 1 with the info i put above and your current format, then have cards that you make 1 for race and 1 for class.  Since every race would have same racial features.  So you could put Wild step, group awareness, Fey Origin, Elven Weapons Proficiency all on one card that is named the Elf Card.(vision type could go here or card 1).  If you use the two card set up vision would go on the second card.  Then you do the same thing for a fighter class card.  Leave a spot for them to write in the weapon group they favor.

That’s a good idea.

For the big blank area in the middle, I’d start with having Initiative and Speed up top with Senses (Perception and extraordinary senses) right below, much like the DDM card.

Healing Surges (amount and number) would form the next line.

I then would list racial and class abilities (names only) which can’t be written up as powers (those that can are obviously on power cards) followed by skills and then feats (again, names only).  Most character sheets don’t provide space for a full rules write up of racial or class abilities or feats anyway, so I don’t see the need to include that here.

If the illustrator goes, I believe there is enough room down the left side for another box, which can be where Bloodied is listed.

On the ability scores, there needs to be two modifier boxes (especially for PCs).  The first lists the regular modifier, just like you’ve shown on your example.  The second lists the check modifier, which includes the 1/2 level bonus creatures get when making an ability check.  In the case of your example these would be Str +18, Con +16, Dex +15, Int +17, Wis +16, Cha +15.  You’ll note that in the MM only the check modifier is listed, but PCs need to keep track of both, so I’d list both.