I thought there wasn’t anything like that just because the site was so new… but banning it? That’s really not cool. I’m really surprised at you, Merc… you’re acting like a tool of “The Man”.
What I always found most interesting about Threbb was that it wasn’t just a D&D site, but a whole community of folks who also happen to be gamers. People there posted about new developments and problems in their lives, threw random tech questions at Lorben, shared goofy links, tossed the occasional “I’ll be in X this weekend… let’s meet up!” statements about, and yes, from time to time even talked about the news and views of the day. Sure there were arguments that got a little heated once in a while, but that’s just part of being a real community: not everyone is always going to get along, but that’s ultimately OK!
Heck, until last week I hadn’t even played a single session in over 2 years but I kept coming back for the community and especially the political/religious/philosophical discussions. I kept coming back because the site was bigger than just a game resource to me, almost like my own digital version of ‘Cheers’. Sure there are other sites I can go to where I can argue about politics, but who will I be arguing with? Just a random assortment of talking heads and ‘clever’ avatars that mean nothing to me. I don’t really care what random dude X thinks about the state of the world, but I do wonder what my friends here have to say about it. Were it not for these side discussions I guarantee I’d have stopped dropping by a long time ago. Honestly I might have quit the game entirely, but by sticking around you guys managed to help me ride out my dry spell and pull me back into it.
Look, I understand that that forum was almost certainly the biggest pain in the neck for the Threbb mods and I sympathize with the hassle I and others must have caused, but by allowing it you kept the most contentious stuff out of the greater community and safely away from anyone who didn’t want to get involved while not treating the rest of us like a bunch of little kids. Certainly things got too heated from time to time, but I blame that on a lack of punishment (aside from pointless slaps on the wrist that ultimately sent an enabling message) to limit the personal attacks and keep things in the realm of debate rather than argument. If you make a firm policy and enforce it strictly I’m sure we can play nice and still engage in adult conversations… and those who don’t should be banned from the politics forum but not the whole site.
Without the sense of real community I might as well just stick to EnWorld for my D&D stuff because in that realm threbb (or DA now, whatever) isn’t even in the same league. Now it seems Threbb is dead while a lot of the folks I knew aren’t here yet, and now you tell me this? Don’t make me leave, guys… and I mean that as a request, not some juvenile threat.
I agree that for a community like this, different subject (not related to gaming) should not be too restricted. Even though I usually did not participate in politics/religion/etc. discussions, I fully understand why it is important. I just happen to be european and US politics are not so much close to my heart.
Still, I think a separate area for this kind of discussion would be welcome, as long as it stays polite.
Well then you can toss in some European politics Rothe, or stick to issues rather than candidates. Nothing about this site should be inherently American-only. The more I think about it the more I wish some of our non-US folks would contribute to those discussions and remind the rest of us to consider the larger perspective. Things can get way too polarized when your stuck in sealed room.
The rules are pretty clear about the exclusion of politics and religion, and this isn’t the place to discuss that ban. Said decision was made by the owners of the site (Jim and company) and should be taken up with them privately.
I’m really surprised at you, Merc… you’re acting like a tool of “The Man”.
It’s venemous statements like that that reassure me that our decision to not have a politics and religion forum was the right call (see rule #2). Merc is doing a great job supporting the site and I am very pleased that he is enforcing the rules (see rule #6). You may disagree with the rules, but saying someone is acting like a tool is not respectful at all (see rule #3).
I have never seen a politics or religion forum where people treated each other with respect. People tend to unfilter themselves online and say things they would never say in person. It is important to us (the creators of this site) that everyone be treated fairly and with respect. Having a forum for those topics would cause forum drama, insults, angry members, yada, yada, almost immediately. It never fails.
I agree that discussions on politics and religion have no place in gaming. There are entire millions-strong communities built solely for this purpose (i.e. fark.com), and they’re good fun to read sometimes. But if I want politics and religion, I’ll go to a community built for that; If I want to discuss D&D, I’ll come here.
To begin, let me assure you that it wasn’t my intention to make this a “public dispute with a moderator”, nor do I think Cameron did “something (I) really think is unreasonable”, and I certainly don’t feel that one simple discussion thread is the equivalent to “spamming a moderator with endless arguments and appeals”. Rather my intention was to discuss just what it is this site will become, the shape and scope of it, while it’s still in it’s infancy.
I think Merc knows me more than well enough to know I wasn’t calling him “a tool”, nor was I even remotely attempting to be venomous. “a tool of ‘the man’” was clearly a halfhearted cliche about selling out. Even without knowing me I would have hoped the tone of the rest of my post would have convinced the other powers that be that I was in fact being quite respectful and reasonable in my commentary. I’m similarly surprised at BP’s chiming in in such a cold, officious manner, especially seeing as he and Merc were both somewhat active in the old talking heads thread, and usually not while wearing their mod hats. They should both also remember that while I am opinionated and stubborn I was far from a consistent troublemaker.
I don’t really know you Jim as you were cleared out before I really got into Threbb, so maybe we just haven’t had time to build that sense of community I was talking about earlier. I’ll try to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a decent guy, and would hope for the same from you. That said, I believe it could only be a good thing this early in the life of the new site to have an open discussion about the rules and to discuss alternative viewpoints. That’s what good communities do when they have a disagreement: they talk about it openly and honestly rather than making everything a closed-door session, actually encouraging input not only from those in power but from the other folks affected by the situation as well. I realize that this is your site and thus DA isn’t a democracy of any sort, but I’m glad you had the good sense to keep this thread open.
I’ve already suggested one alternative (strict control w/ specific forum lockout for offenders) but I’ll toss in another as well… make it an at-your-own-risk zone with a pop-up warning label, the kind with a checkbox to disable it after the first appearance. It could be a free-for-all, user-controlled zone where anything short of illegality is permitted and only filtered by way of consumer choice, just like real life. Things might well get a little bit rowdy in that corner of the board, but I reiterate that having a place for it keeps that sort of thing out of the rest of the site (and you should certainly have a zero tolerance policy for any of it spilling out, much like things staying in Vegas), but this setup drastically reduces the workload for mods compared to my first presented option.
That said, the initial idea is what I personally would much rather see though the second is better than nothing.
Rather my intention was to discuss just what it is this site will become, the shape and scope of it, while it’s still in it’s infancy.
I understood that, which is why I thought it a good idea to leave this forum open for discussions.
I believe it could only be a good thing this early in the life of the new site to have an open discussion about the rules and to discuss alternative viewpoints. That’s what good communities do when they have a disagreement: they talk about it openly and honestly rather than making everything a closed-door session, actually encouraging input not only from those in power but from the other folks affected by the situation as well.
Totally agreed. Again, this is why I wanted to leave the forum open.
make it an at-your-own-risk zone with a pop-up warning label, the kind with a checkbox to disable it after the first appearance. It could be a free-for-all, user-controlled zone where anything short of illegality is permitted and only filtered by way of consumer choice, just like real life. Things might well get a little bit rowdy in that corner of the board, but I reiterate that having a place for it keeps that sort of thing out of the rest of the site (and you should certainly have a zero tolerance policy for any of it spilling out, much like things staying in Vegas), but this setup drastically reduces the workload for mods compared to my first presented option.
I don’t think that a free-for-all forum would benefit the community as a whole. Remember, this site and community is intended to be safe for gamers of all ages. An unfiltered community would quickly turn into a “wretched hive of scum and villainy”. It would degenerate into mindless banter and insults that would carry over into other forums through veiled insults and chide remarks.
In terms of reducing workload for mods, the best option is to eliminate the topics altogether. Believe me, I would love to discuss politics and religion in an intelligent way, but there’s no effective way to enforce it.
The intent of this community is to be safe and fun for everyone. In fact, this site is registered with the ICRA has being family friendly. Parents that are ok with their kids playing D&D should feel safe to let their kids be community members.
First of all I want to say that I will miss the poletics and religion section of the site but I do understand Jim’s wish to eliminate. That being said I would also like to point out that with that comes it’s own problems.
I do want to reassure you, Jim, that NemZ’s remarks were definately not venemous. But knowing this might come from knowing how Nem and Merc interact, we are all friendly with one another. If anything it was gentle ribbing wrapped in a cliche statement.
It is important to us (the creators of this site) that everyone be treated fairly and with respect. Having a forum for those topics would cause forum drama, insults, angry members, yada, yada, almost immediately. It never fails.
Just a heads up here, Jim, but to me the site caters to a general crowd but isolates anyone who wants to so much as mention a political topic. I can definately see someone taking that is not treating everyone “fairly”. Also, by not having a forum for those topics it will cause drama and angry members. Angry might be a bit far, and so is drama, but you get my meaning. In fact, it already has.
While not having a place to talk about such topics is your choice Jim, I hope that you do understand that you are likely to lose some of the community members that many of us know and like. Some of them will actually be missed! But seriously...having it be a rule to not mention a political topic at all does seem like the opposite extreme. Just sayin’.
I also intend to ignore any statement that discussing a decision like this as being taboo whether it be by a moderator or not. This is exactly the kind of topic that should be discussed openly...that is if the new admins care about the opinions of their community. And I’m sure they do if I remember Jim correctly.
(by the way, how do you show someone’s name in the quote?)
It would degenerate into mindless banter and insults that would carry over into other forums through veiled insults and chide remarks.
