4th & Dragon : Dungeons and Dragons...and stuff

Hello there, stranger. Stay and sit a while.

You should Login or Register


   
 
4E - lil’ question/contradiction
Posted: 23 July 2008 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
XP:   213
Level 5
Joined  2008-01-25

I’ve been meaning to ask something about 4E for the longest time, but completely forgot what it was and can’t remember it for the life of me. I even dreamed that I remembered it, but in my dream the question was completely nonsensical, something like what happens to a wizard’s arcane spells when he gets reincarnated as an animal or somesuch, so I guess that’s not it. So, here’s another little thing I’ve been meaning to ask about:

In the PHB, page 226, under “Daily”, it says there’s a limit to how many daily powers granted by magic items you can use, “as with daily powers provided by your class”. Except, I’ve read the “Classes” chapter and found nothing about that supposed limit on class daily powers, nor is there anything anywhere else that seems to allude to it. So, is that a glitch? I just saw the errata for the first time right now, and there’s no mention of it. Is there actually a limit on how many different daily powers from your class you can use in a given day, or is the reference in the magic item section dead?

BTW, I get how the thing with tier vs. milestones regarding magic item daily powers works. I think I do, anyway. It’s not easy, since there are two different limits there (total item daily powers used, and different daily powers from the same item), and I haven’t seen a single magic item where the second limit is relevant, so that makes me guess if I’m wrong.

I had another question about the half-elf’s Dilettante ability, but the errata I just read clarifies it… pity, no more wizard cantrips for me :(

Galtrik Yolranet - Lost Islands character

ARE NOT LIGHT AND GROSS BODIES INTRACONVERTIBLE?!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 July 2008 07:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
XP:   1705
Moderator
Joined  2007-09-21

We could turn this into our old ask a simple question get a simple answer kind of thread…

Quick answers for you:
The limitation of daily powers refers to you only having limited daily powers known. For instance, at first level you have 1 daily power from your class (typically). As for the items, at levels 1st-10th you can only use one item’s daily power in a day. After reaching a milestone, you may use a daily power of a different item. To use the same daily power twice, you must take an extended rest and therefore...you may never use a daily power from an item more than once in a day.

’d20Asigbanner2.gif

Conjurer’s Chess: Xandos
Lost Islands PbP: Anguish
Obsidian PbP: Mexil

Own:
LINK BOOMERANG (1)
Doom’s Jocular Jockstrap Award (1)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 July 2008 03:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
XP:   213
Level 5
Joined  2008-01-25

I guess I could have written my post in a manner that isn’t completely nonsensical… but hey, there *is* a question (and only one!) in there somewhere.

Talae - 23 July 2008 07:40 PM

The limitation of daily powers refers to you only having limited daily powers known. For instance, at first level you have 1 daily power from your class (typically).

Yeah, at *first* level. Then, from 5th level onwards, the parallel is never true, so no, I don’t think your interpretation really solves it. (The table on page 143 of the DMG helps.) No, to me they make it sound like there is a limitation to using, say, only ONE daily power at all per day at 5th level, even though you have two different powers to use. (Which is the way it works with magic items.) Only there is no such limit anywhere, which leaves me wondering whether there *should* be and they forgot to write it, or whether there *was* such a limit early in the development process and they got rid of it, but forgot to delete that reference.

Talae - 23 July 2008 07:40 PM

As for the items, at levels 1st-10th you can only use one item’s daily power in a day. After reaching a milestone, you may use a daily power of a different item. To use the same daily power twice, you must take an extended rest and therefore...you may never use a daily power from an item more than once in a day.

Yeah, but… let’s read again that magical paragraph just beside the girl’s sword in page 226.

Each time you reach a milestone (see page 259), you gain one additional use of a magic item daily power. This benefit can be used to activate any magic item daily power that you have not already used this day (even if you’ve already used a different daily power from that magic item).

Emphasis mine of course. The way I read it, with the simple limit based on level (before figuring milestones into it), which is what comes before the fateful paragraph above, you can simply use one daily power from each magic item at all in a single day. So, even if you have more than one daily use (from 11th level onwards), the uses have to come from different magic items. So far so good.

Then you get milestones, and, according to the paragraph above, not only that adds to your pool of times you can use abilities from (different) magic items, but, as I bolded above, the extra uses from milestones can even go to different powers from the SAME item. Which is also explicitly forbidden for the “base” uses per day, before milestones. (And things don’t generally get prohibited unless they’re actually possible.)

So, the problem is - that latter twist makes sense only for magic items that have more than one daily power in the same item. Which means that, theoretically, if there were no limitations, you WOULD be able to use a daily power from the same item twice… because it wouldn’t be the *same* power, but *two* different powers (just like characters 5th-8th level have two distinct daily powers and can use both in the same day).

Only the thing is, there is no magic item at all, in the PHB at least, that has more than one daily power. (The only items with more than one daily power I’ve seen are artifacts, but they’re exempt from such limits as per page 164, which renders the point moot.) So, I wonder - did they include that just in case future supplements may or may not have magic items with more than one daily power apiece, or were they just being silly?

Galtrik Yolranet - Lost Islands character

ARE NOT LIGHT AND GROSS BODIES INTRACONVERTIBLE?!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 July 2008 03:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
XP:   714
Level 10
Joined  2007-09-24
Sir Kazum - 24 July 2008 03:16 AM

So, I wonder - did they include that just in case future supplements may or may not have magic items with more than one daily power apiece, or were they just being silly?

That would be my guess. Or to cover cases where a DM built his own magic items and they had more than 1 daily.

"Josh is an awesome speller. One of his best sentence in my game is ‘Taes will make planes with Narthos to meat in the ally.’ “- Darken

Profile
 
 
   
 
 
Powered by ExpressionEngine
ExpressionEngine Discussion Forum - Version 2.0.0 (20070724)
Script Executed in 0.3956 seconds
RSS 2.0     Atom Feed