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Gleemax is GONE!!!!!
Posted: 28 July 2008 10:08 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Somehow, we missed this awesome news from Sunday:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16452125#post16452125

Wizards of the Coast today announced the decision to discontinue its Gleemax social networking site in order to focus on digital initiatives for core brands Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.

“We have the two best games in the world,” said Randy Buehler, VP of Digital Games for Wizards of the Coast, “we need to take care of them before expanding into new digital arenas.”

Redirecting development resources accelerates the completion of new features and functionality for D&D Insider and Magic Online III.

“Wizards still believes in the vision for a social networking site dedicated to hobby gamers,” said Buehler. “We will continue to strive towards that vision through wizards.com.”

Maybe they really are starting to listen to the gamers…

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Posted: 29 July 2008 05:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hooray!
I never had anything to do with it anyways, lol.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 06:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Other then the forums what the hell was it? (or maybe a better question would be what was it supposed to be? as I suspect it wasn’t fully rolled out)

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Posted: 29 July 2008 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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It was a failed attempt at social networking.  Under-funded, under-staffed, and overly-lame.

You’re a slacker!

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Posted: 29 July 2008 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Jim Goings - 29 July 2008 07:09 AM

social networking

Like facebook or myspace?

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Posted: 29 July 2008 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Lakoda - 29 July 2008 07:14 AM

Jim Goings - 29 July 2008 07:09 AM
social networking

Like facebook or myspace?

Exactly.  Geared exclusively to gamers.  It was supposed to be a game system agnostic social networking site on the same coin as facebook.  Theoretically, you would have been able to find game players of just about any game in existence and network with them.  The idea has merit, but the implementation sucked.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Thx for the info guys.  Not really sure how to react to this now that I know what it is (err was).  Seems like a nice idea but something about wizards running that community just doesn’t work for me.  I guess this is for the best, if for no other reason then they’ll focus on D&D more.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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They were definitely spreading themselves too thin. Maybe with seeing Wizards as not being capable, some other company can step in and be the “D&D Facebook.” Said company could exclusively work on that aspect and therefore would have more success (or so I would assume).

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Posted: 29 July 2008 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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There are sites out there which are attempting to fill the gap you’ve described, Talae. One of them, RPGBomb is basically a gamer’s MySpace.

The problem is that gamers don’t need a MySpace, since there already is a MySpace. Specialized social networking sites need features that appeal to that specialty. I’m a member of Osteobook which largely has the same problem: the huge social networking sites, like MySpace and Facebook, already have the vast pools of potential new friends that new sites like these lack, so even if the site isn’t specialized for your interest, it’s still very easy to find other people with similar interests. I still rely on Facebook to stay in touch with my friends from medical school even though we have Osteobook because there are simply more of them on Facebook, and there isn’t enough to draw them away from a feature-rich site like Facebook.

What gamers need online is a gamer’s destination, a more full-featured social networking site that doesn’t just allow gamers to meet gamer, but helps facilitate all the different aspects of gaming. Online character sheet storage, campaign and house-rule wikis, networks for finding interesting blog posts, topic-based chats for quick “Help me answer this question before my session starts in a hour!” types of things, links to different RPG storefronts and book reviews to help grow the market, etc. Essentially, if there’s ever going to be a “D&D Facebook”, then it’ll have to do everything D&D-related so well that it’ll draw enough members to make it worth using over a larger site like Facebook. If you’re going to specialize, you need to specialize well, enough so that your specialty is worth using over the vast pool of members on larger, non-specialty sites.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Absolutely right JK.  Although, such a site could just offer all the items a gamer would want and just integrate it into the non-specialized sites (like with a facebook app).

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Posted: 29 July 2008 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Jackelope King - 29 July 2008 09:15 AM

-snip-

This would be awesome.  I see sites like ENWorld trying to fill some of those gaps, especially with EN2 and the ENWiki, but it’s still geared almost exclusively to D&D and d20, so it really doesn’t branch out in the way that Gleemax intended.

In order for something like that to exist, they would have to take something like the OGL and break it open even further.  Like I said, the ideas behind Gleemax were great, and something I’d like to see, but it just wasn’t working.  And frankly, I’m not sure how well it would have worked even if that was their main focus.

Digital game applications - like places to play Settlers of Cataan through an online program, or Monopoly, etc - would also need to be incorporated.  And I think it would need to be free but also have the support of the game publishers, which is like pulling teeth.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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In this modern age where taking it easy and frivolous free time are a rare commodity, p2p gaming is becoming less and less likely for me.  One of the only ways I’ll be able to game again is through play by posting, a Neverwinter Nights Style interface, or a social networking site equipped with the apps and tools to make it work.  While I never had a chance to look at this Gleemax business, hopefully something more viable will enter the market in the near future.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Digital game applications - like places to play Settlers of Cataan through an online program, or Monopoly, etc - would also need to be incorporated.  And I think it would need to be free but also have the support of the game publishers, which is like pulling teeth.

You mean like an integrated version of Vassal?

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Posted: 29 July 2008 01:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Lakoda - 29 July 2008 09:40 AM

Absolutely right JK.  Although, such a site could just offer all the items a gamer would want and just integrate it into the non-specialized sites (like with a facebook app).

It’s possible. A gamer’s needs aren’t necessarily met best by the format that Facebook’s Wall offers, for instance. In my mind, a gamer generally comes online for two reasons:

1. To ask for help. Game sites can be huge support mechanisms for the games they discuss, putting an entire community’s collective knowledge at each player’s disposal. Instant feedback and rules-clarifications to help gamers puzzle out the answers they need.

2. To present some new content. Game sites also offer gamers the chance to share their ideas and new creations with the world, and (as part of number 1), to receive feedback and ideas for how to improve it.

Which is why I almost think that an ideal gamer’s destination, in addition to providing a good virtual tabletop ala Vassal (as BP kindly linked to) needs to provide a soap-box where gamers can share their ideas, experiences, and creations. You need a place for those who like storyhours to post the latest escapades of their parties, a place for gearheads to share and fiddle with new rules variants, a place for worldbuilders to show off their latest campaign setting, and you need to have a way to tie it all together so that you’re not just posting your opinions, but you’re adding your opinions and creations to the big community discussion.

My own non-technical thoughts out this would be to make the core of such a site very much like a wiki. Each member of the site would get their own “piece” of the wiki, able to use that space to create what they like. I recommend a wiki (especially a “WYSIWYG” wiki) because it provides a pretty decent balance between ease-of-use and robust outputs, as sites like Wikipedia have shown, but also because they strongly encourage interlinking of articles by wikiwords, and that sort of connectedness is essential in my mind.

At the “front” of these wikis, you’d have a main-page for each individual user which would be very blog-like. This would be where a member would ask questions or spew ideas, as this would be probably the most public soapbox a member would have access to. A relatively standardized set of keywords or tags would be critical here, to enable users to navigate the community and find what they want in addition to who they want.

These keywords would be critical because the welcome page for the entire community would need to be able to present all the latest blog posts based on their topic in a format similar to the forums. If you know that you’re interested in talking about D&D 4e, you should be able to navigate to it and see what sort of discussions are going on of various users’ posts. This is how gamers meet other gamers. And you need a way for really interesting posts or ideas or rules to be recognized by the community. In the past, I’ve suggested a Digg-style pseudo-voting system, where you’d make a really good post or rule a “favorite” or whatnot, voting up or down a particular article’s rating.

Another key is that while community keeps people at a site, it’s content that makes it grow. Jim’s been pretty astute with that on Dragon Avenue, keeping the front page going full-bore at an impressive rate. Essential to the success of a site like this would be SRDs which rules-tinkering would be built around. I point to The Hypertext d20 SRD for a great model on how this should be done: easy navigation to quickly find critical rules. SRDs like this would form the foundation for rules tinkerers, as the SRDs themselves would be more or less immutable, anyone could “latch on” and post their own variants, which would display as links in the SRD. So on this sort of site, an SRD entry on Diplomacy would include a hyperlink to an entry on Rich Burlew’s wiki with his variant Diplomacy rules under a “Variants” heading.

The other big key to it is the virtual gaming table that has already been described above, and this is easily the most difficult part of the entire site.

Finally, in terms of legalities and ownership, the Open Gaming License is great, but it might need a little bit of tweaking. For this sort of “share and share alike” community akin to the Open Source community (which in my mind is key to generating the content this site would need), there would need to be clarification for ePublishing on blogs or wikis. Making sure that the creator of a great rule gets credit is important, and this can be built into the site through cross-linking across articles (so that my variant of your 2d10 system for critical hits would link back to your original wiki post). Being able to generate section Section 15s would be a very useful feature as well. I also think that there would need to be new clauses that encourage asking permission to use open gaming materials (as is customary among OGL publishers now, if only for the sake of being polite and letting a creator know how his or her ideas are being used) and a clause that gives a member the right to publish for-profit an idea first (as well as the ability to wave that right and allow someone else to use an idea for their publications if you have no intent of publishing).

There’d probably need to be more, but this is what occurs to me off the top of my head.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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This is a highly personal opinion, so nobody gets to take this personally wink.  Wiki’s are overrated and overused!!!

Wiki’s are great things when used right, but the vast majority of wiki’s are not used correctly.  Wiki’s are great for collaborative projects or resources (like wikipedia or a project wiki someone starts).  If you want people to feel as they below to a community and that their posts enhance the topic not just comment on it, the author will need to own that post, ie: others can’t edit it.  That would not be possible in a properly run wiki.  That’s not to say the same or similar technology can’t or shouldn’t be used to accomplish the goal here.  Beyond what a gamer would want, any social networked contributor would need a home page, a discussion mechanism (forum), and a project/working area (like a wiki).

I think having a virtual table/board/whatever is probably the best you can ask for.  Trying to integrate rules (especial house rules) ties the table to those rules and it would be a nightmare (and unrealistic) to do this for each and every game out there.  I also think online rules are a pipe dream.  It would be wonderful but selling rules is how companies make money.  Gleemax and DDI where/are separated when they should be unified, what drives that separation is money in selling the rule set.

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Posted: 29 July 2008 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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You’re right on the wikis… edits would (at best) need to be moderated by that particular wiki’s “owner”. The reason I suggest a wiki-type setup is mostly for the ability to link between pages.

And I don’t think trying to integrate rules is the goal, but to provide a central location where people can tweak rules. It works for open source, and I believe that it can work for open gaming. What game companies sell are not rules, but the product of rulebooks (which are infinitely better to bring to a game than SRDs). And many game companies have already released SRDs for their games (including D&D 3.0 / 3.5 and Spirit of the Century), while others release the rules for their games for free (like Wushu, Fudge, and currently Pathfinder). Previous attempts to create an OGL Database failed, but the environment has changed now that the GSL has come around, and an Open Gaming Database / Wiki might become more realistic. Remember games published under the OGL are already free and clear to be added (even if the publishers might be unhappy at first). What I think publishers need to realize is that this becomes an excellent way to spread the word about their games. The people who just cherry-pick from SRDs aren’t likely customers anyway, and making the SRD available helps to make the game more accessible to more potential customers.

But like I said, we’ll see. I believe that having a core of content for a gamer destination is critical, and using a foundation of SRDs is a good way to spur that content. That’s only me, though wink

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